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[Iamblichus]

How do I build a wall that can't be climbed?  I had read in previous posts that overhangs were unclimbable but that is not the case.    I built a two z-level wall where the second z-level overhung the first and goblins and gnomes have no problem climbing over it.  I also had read that fortifications could not be climbed but I had goblin archers hanging on to my fortifications shooting in at me. There are no trees near by so that is not a factor.  One issue may be that I built it out of logs which are easy to climb.  I am almost finished adding a third z-level, not an overhang, made out of wood blocks but it looks like a gnome was able to climb over one of the completed sections.  How high do I need to go to stop climbers or would a two square overhang stop even the best climber?  In short, how do I build an unclimbable wall?

[Shonai_Dweller]

Smooth stone should work. Then again, so should overhangs. Sure they didn't just jump over?

[Iamblichus]

Smooth stone should work. Then again, so should overhangs. Sure they didn't just jump over?

I watched a gnome go under the overhang and then come out on the other side of the wall.  So I don't think he was jumping.  And is it possible to jump up a z-level and grab hold of a wall?

[Sanctume]

Smooth stone should work. Then again, so should overhangs. Sure they didn't just jump over?

I watched a gnome go under the overhang and then come out on the other side of the wall.  So I don't think he was jumping.  And is it possible to jump up a z-level and grab hold of a wall?

Yes, creatures can jump 1z, then hold onto the wall surface, and proceed to climb from there. 

[Sanctume]

I usually do my 2z overhang with a 1z 2-wide dry moat

Code: [Select]

z+1 _#
z+0 #  ____
z-1 #^^####


[Starver]

Could it have been a diagonal movement?

Side view:

Code: [Select]

  W_      Wx
__xW___ ___W___
   1        2
1: Creature next to a wall under an overhung wall.
2: Creature on top of the wall, next to the overhung wall.

I've not noticed this sort of thing happen, before, but I've not had too many easy-climbing creatures randomly wandering through.

[Iamblichus]

Yes, creatures can jump 1z, then hold onto the wall surface, and proceed to climb from there.

Ah, I did not know that.  Unfortunately digging a moat is not a great option because I built paved roads around my wall to keep the trees away.  But if I added a fourth z-level as a second overhang would that work?

[Iamblichus]

Could it have been a diagonal movement?

Side view:

Code: [Select]

  W_      Wx
__xW___ ___W___
   1        2
1: Creature next to a wall under an overhung wall.
2: Creature on top of the wall, next to the overhung wall.

I've not noticed this sort of thing happen, before, but I've not had too many easy-climbing creatures randomly wandering through.

Quite possibly, it was also happening at 35+ FPS so I might not have seen it correctly.  Those mountain gnomes are quick little drunks.

[PatrikLundell]

- There are conflicting claims whether jumping upwards and then climbing can be done or not. To be safe I do the outcropping with two levels of air below.
- It's been said a wall jutting out one tile can be climbed diagonally upwards, but a floor jutting out one tile can not. Since a floor looks silly I jut out two tiles (thus ending up with both a floor and a wall).
- Fortifications can be shot through, but a certain skill level has to be reached to fire through a fortification when not adjacent to it.
- A built fortification doesn't have a floor on top, and so can be used to enter downwards diagonally (at least by flyers), unless you build a floor/wall/fortification on top of it. A carved fortification retains the floor on top, but there is some indication a carved fortification with a wall on top loses the floor part if the wall/floor/fortification above is removed.
- There's a tunneling dodge bug that sometimes causes a dodging creature to end up on the other side of the fortification/wall. Mysterious bodies of militiadwarves in the moat when having the barracks on the other side of the wall can be caused by that.
- Smoothed natural stone has been said to be unclimbable, but I've seen one report of an undead that managed to climb at least a bit after months of trying.
- A completely submerged fortification (7/7 depth) can be swum through by swimmers.

[khearn]

I suspect he may have jumped up one z-level and climbed.

Here's how I build mine (side view)

Code: [Select]

        F             F
outside  W  inside   W   outside
         W           W
-----------------------------
F - Fortification
W - Wall
---- - Ground

Note that the fortification is offset so there is a walkway on top of the walls. I make a route with a stop at each corner of the walls and have 2 dwarves from each squad patrol that route at any given time. Keeps an eye out for any riff-raff trying to sneak in, and also keeps the cave adaptation down. And the marksdwarves reduce the cancel spam due to overflying birds (and get live target practice at the same time). It does tend to get messy with all the expended bolts lying around, though.

I never have anyone climb over, assuming I keep the @&$% trees under control. I typically end up building a 6 tile wide paved road all around. Those trees are sneaky.

[Bumber]

How do I build a wall that can't be climbed? I had read in previous posts that overhangs were unclimbable but that is not the case. I built a two z-level wall where the second z-level overhung the first and goblins and gnomes have no problem climbing over it.

If you're using a wall overhang, it needs to be two tiles wide. Climbers can climb diagonally up if they can grasp the side (they can't with floors, so a single tile works for them.)

I also had read that fortifications could not be climbed but I had goblin archers hanging on to my fortifications shooting in at me.

Not only can fortifications be climbed, but you can jump straight though them while hanging on.

Yes, creatures can jump 1z, then hold onto the wall surface, and proceed to climb from there.

Adventurers can't jump up z-levels, and I'm reasonably sure NPCs can't either. If you build something like an upside-down pyramid, it's not climb-safe regardless of jumping.

[Sanctume]

Yes, creatures can jump 1z, then hold onto the wall surface, and proceed to climb from there.

Adventurers can't jump up z-levels, and I'm reasonably sure NPCs can't either. If you build something like an upside-down pyramid, it's not climb-safe regardless of jumping.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140013.0
Dwarf Fortress 0.40.01 Released
(*) Various movement changes.  Climbing/jumping/sprinting in both modes, though invaders still require a line of site to use them.  Adventure mode has a stealth rewrite, and some elements of that are present in dwarf mode (it is generally easier to spot thieves and ambushers, and I'll probably need to make them smarter about finding cover).  Movement and combat are separate now.  Startled people climb up the walls of their homes a little too often.

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=140944.0
Dwarf Fortress 0.40.04 Released
Major bug fixes
(*) Tried to make idle code somewhat better about climbing while still getting dwarves out from being stuck

Other bug fixes/tweaks
(*) Fixed some brokenness with climbing AI vs. ledge tops
(*) Made climbing have a higher path cost
(*) Made people less likely to climb after a failure

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=141350.0
Dwarf Fortress 0.40.05 Released
Other bug fixes/tweaks
(*) Added some basic climbing skill to wg/etc. soldiers, esp. thieves

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=142860.0
Dwarf Fortress 0.40.10 Released
Major bug fixes
(*) Allowed flying/climbing wilderness critters to work their way off the map

[Iamblichus]

- It's been said a wall jutting out one tile can be climbed diagonally upwards, but a floor jutting out one tile can not. Since a floor looks silly I jut out two tiles (thus ending up with both a floor and a wall).

Ugh, that is not good news.  Unfortunately I am enclosing a 80x80 area for a large above ground city so I can't really afford any trial and error.  Adding two squares to the perimeter of the wall means I'll have to extend my paving as well. 

What is the deal with trees and jumping?  I recall reading that in fortress mode only a one square jump is possible, is that correct?  And it looks like the largest trees on my map are five squares across.  So I'm thinking that I need four paved squares away from the edge of my walls to keep anything from jumping from a branch.  Does that sound right?

[Iamblichus]

How do I build a wall that can't be climbed? I had read in previous posts that overhangs were unclimbable but that is not the case. I built a two z-level wall where the second z-level overhung the first and goblins and gnomes have no problem climbing over it.

If you're using a wall overhang, it needs to be two tiles wide. Climbers can climb diagonally up if they can grasp the side (they can't with floors, so a single tile works for them.)

I also had read that fortifications could not be climbed but I had goblin archers hanging on to my fortifications shooting in at me.

Not only can fortifications be climbed, but you can jump straight though them while hanging on.

Yes, creatures can jump 1z, then hold onto the wall surface, and proceed to climb from there.

Adventurers can't jump up z-levels, and I'm reasonably sure NPCs can't either. If you build something like an upside-down pyramid, it's not climb-safe regardless of jumping.

So, if I am reading this correctly,  a single z-level wall  with a floor overhang should be unclimbable?

[arbarbonif]

I haven't had anything climb single tile wall (with carved fortification) overhangs.  I did have a goblin dodge through the wall tho.  It looks like they can quantum teleport like sparring dwarves sometimes do.

Code: [Select]

_F
W
D

(It is on top of a bluff, D is a dirt wall, W is a block wall, F is a block wall with fortifications carved into it.)