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[TheBiggerFish]

Too few players for a hammer methinks, so that's a no from me.

Agreed.

[TheBiggerFish]

@hector:
Hmm.
Checks out.

I concur that we have an arsonist but wish to keep my role secret.

Unvote.
Vote Starver.

[Starver]

[2 new replies...]

@hector:
To be fair, currently I bet you want the time to change our minds because otherwise you're doomed, this round.  I'm wondering whether you'd be so inclined if holding the hammer.  Think longer term, though.  In future rounds (and in different circumstances) would you prefer it to drag out?

Personally, I'd vote for a "going, going, gone..." hammer.  A set time (12 hours?) from any hammer-point, within which retractions/vote-switches can be made to undue/swap a hammer.  With as little or as much explanation and discussion as wanted.  And resetting the clock.  But the scheduled end-of-day happens, of course, if it that happens ahead of any (delayed) hammer.

But it's not that long, really, until the originally-stated end-of-day for the current position.  We can stew for... ?14? hours, can't we?  I could probably even get some sleep.


Incidentally, you're claiming Miller, i.e. the Townie With Weakness slot.  But you aren't that.

---
@TBF I urge you to rethink.  I think Hector's title is correctly claimed (but not the alignment), and I think I know your profession (and alignment).  I'm prepared to ask you to switch back to Hector for today and then be the subject of your ability tonight, if it comes to that.  But it won't.

[Starver]

(Because I shouldn't edit...)  "...can be made to undp/swap a hammer."

And I meant to put the "[2 new replies...]" just above the @TBF bit, because that's the added fakeedit response to the ninjaing concerned.

But never mind.

[Starver]

<...cna't tyep...>
undo!

I obviously need sleep.  But think about it.

[FallacyofUrist]

I concur that we have an arsonist but wish to keep my role secret.

1. WHAT? Okay, what?
2. There was no kill last night. Arsonist is definitely a possibility, but other possibilities: no kill due to lazyness/inactivity, role block... bulletproof townie... you're just assuming an arsonist despite all of the other possibilities. What makes you think that the other possibilities are invalid?
3. What benefit does the town gain from keeping your role secret? You don't need to tell me what your role is, just explain to me why the town benefits if it's kept secret.
~~~

I like how you all just go along with it. No questions asked, no theorycrafting over what might be going on. Funny that, TBF, you were all for it before, eh?
Given what my role is (gas-station attendant, gives a false investigation result) I'm inclined to say it's an arsonist. If I'm right, it would explain why there has been no kill so far: the arsonist's night action is to prime a target for death, and then can choose to kill them later. I'm only really familiar with the Town of Salem variant, in which they can choose to either prime a target or kill them at night, but this is a semi-bastard game so it might be different. Either way, if that's the case, we can't make a mistake today. The worst that could happen is we lose the game D1.
But if you guys want to lynch me without preamble, an opportunity to defend myself or without considering whether FoU's claim is legit, that's cool too. Just don't expect me to be along for the ride. I don't particular find a "let's random lynch and see what happens!" playstyle to be particularly enjoyable, and I'm not playing another 20 games of mafia like that.

Good logic. I've greened the bits that I find particularly important.
First greening section reply: Yep. Noted that- it was something of a bandwagon as soon as I accused hector, regardless of the potential other factors in play.
Second greening section reply: Your claim could be you as mafia, claiming as such to make it more likely to be an arsonist, trying to make town focus on a different threat. Or you could be telling the truth. If you're scum, nice claim, by the way. If you're telling the truth, TBF's assumption of an arsonist, just based on your claim... makes him more suspicious.
~~~
Everybody: what do we have to lose from a massclaim at this point? Really, what?

[Starver]

Everybody: what do we have to lose from a massclaim at this point? Really, what?

Until I knew how much/little 'character' carried over between rounds, I didn't want to say too much.

But I'm sleepy enough (GMT+0) to decide to say something, before I absent myself for the night. I am a Librarian. As I all but indicated, I'm the Town Weakness role. No special powers my books are my weakness.  They get wet, I'm out of the game.  From which I already supposed that the enemy would be a firestarter of some kind (could kill anyone) with the Town Special (their natural enemy) being also potentially my own downfall due to the water that is their main armament mostly intended to be used against the enemy.

The rest of the logic I used seemed (still seems) obvious.  The key to which of a trio of possibilities I had being Fallacy's revelation, thank you.  (With room for the Bastardy to fool everyone, of course.)

So, your call: Gas Station Attendant (ready fuel available) as the enemy or librarian (technically also fuel available) for some reason the enemy.  Mister Fireman (I presume), I ask that you hammer the likely arsonist today, and if that's wrong (it won't be) then it's your call as to whether I'm the target for tonight (or perhaps otherwise, if your role-talent doesn't work like I've imagined... again, up to you).

But your choice.  Also you others.

[Tomasque]

Roles do not carry across between rounds, nor do archetypes. I randomly decide who is who each round.

[TheBiggerFish]

@Starver: Hmm.

Your role in fact does make sense compared to mine.

In that case, I will in fact switch back to Hector13.  Although, we're forgetting that the psychologist could be lying.

[FallacyofUrist]

I concur that we have an arsonist but wish to keep my role secret.

1. WHAT? Okay, what?
2. There was no kill last night. Arsonist is definitely a possibility, but other possibilities: no kill due to lazyness/inactivity, role block... bulletproof townie... you're just assuming an arsonist despite all of the other possibilities. What makes you think that the other possibilities are invalid?
3. What benefit does the town gain from keeping your role secret? You don't need to tell me what your role is, just explain to me why the town benefits if it's kept secret.

TBF, I think you missed something. Or you didn't realize these were directed towards you(sorry, if that's the case). I would appreciate some answers.

In any case:
FallacyofUrist(Psychologist)
TheBiggerFish(fireman?)
Starver(Librarian?)
Hector13(arsonist/gas station attendant?)

Two things. One- it's strange. 3 players- all three of their claims are arsonist game themed. Fourth player(me)... generic. I have a feeling that this may be part of the semi-bastardy and should be noted for the next rounds.
Two. TheBiggerFish is now the lynchpin. A claim from him would help to sort this out.
Three. I would love to see a good defense from hector13. And a defense made based on role claims foremost.

[TheBiggerFish]

It's more like I'm keeping something hidden from scum.

[hector13]

Starver

[2 new replies...]

@hector:
1. To be fair, currently I bet you want the time to change our minds because otherwise you're doomed, this round.  I'm wondering whether you'd be so inclined if holding the hammer.  Think longer term, though.  In future rounds (and in different circumstances) would you prefer it to drag out?

Personally, I'd vote for a "going, going, gone..." hammer.  A set time (12 hours?) from any hammer-point, within which retractions/vote-switches can be made to undue/swap a hammer.  With as little or as much explanation and discussion as wanted.  And resetting the clock.  But the scheduled end-of-day happens, of course, if it that happens ahead of any (delayed) hammer.

But it's not that long, really, until the originally-stated end-of-day for the current position.  We can stew for... ?14? hours, can't we?  I could probably even get some sleep.


2. Incidentally, you're claiming Miller, i.e. the Townie With Weakness slot.  But you aren't that.

---
@TBF I urge you to rethink.  I think Hector's title is correctly claimed (but not the alignment), and I think I know your profession (and alignment).  I'm prepared to ask you to switch back to Hector for today and then be the subject of your ability tonight, if it comes to that.  But it won't.

1. Yes, actually. 48 hour days aren't a great deal of time in mafia, so I don't think hammers are necessary. It's a bit silly that you guys just immediately believed FoU's claim and investigation result and then I immediately have 3 votes on me without even getting an opportunity to say "er, hang on while I explain what's happening, please." sure, but I'd feel that way if it happened to any of you three, too.

2. Incidentally, you're assuming what alignment my role is without me actually saying. I'm Neutral, if you must know. Not sure why, as you say the traditional Miller is a pro-town role, but I can only take what I'm given, and have a guess at the rest. We all seem to be in agreement that our "scum" is in actuality an arsonist, traditionally a third-party, so maybe that has something to do with it.


FoU

Two things. One- it's strange. 3 players- all three of their claims are arsonist game themed. Fourth player(me)... generic. I have a feeling that this may be part of the semi-bastardy and should be noted for the next rounds.
Two. TheBiggerFish is now the lynchpin. A claim from him would help to sort this out.
Three. I would love to see a good defense from hector13. And a defense made based on role claims foremost.

I've already told you what my role is and why your investigation returned a non-town result, I can't give you anything more than that. I suspect you may mean something else, but I don't know what. Could you explain, please?

Further, I'm not sure a claim from TBF will help anything. Any one of us could be lying with their claim and the rest won't know about it until the end. He's apparently refusing to claim anyway. Read into that what you will.


Presently I think TBF is scum, and it's through his behaviour in the game, rather than through a faulty investigation result:

Spoiler: Case Building (click to show/hide)

His first few posts (1, 2, and 3) are all about the night action, which won't help us. Any one of us could easily lie about our action, and even if we all told the truth, we can't know that until Tomasque posts what actions were taken after the game.

He acknowledges in his 4th post that the information won't help us find scum, but continues asking these types of questions anyway (5 and 6)

After FoU tells us about investigating me, TBF posts nonsense. He's thinking about it, apparently. However, 20 minutes later, Starver pops up, votes me and then 3 minutes later TBF agrees with him and votes me. If he was wanting to vote me based on FoU's investigation, why did he wait until after Starver voted? He also asks FoU to investigate him during N2. Now I can only offer conjecture on that, but I think he's trying to get a little bit of town-cred by asking to be investigated, while in reality he's scum knowing the game won't last beyond N2 because he'll kill someone overnight.

Anyway, he unvotes after I claim, voting Starver instead, then accepts Starver's request to move his vote back(!?) and returns his vote to me. How wishy-washy is that? He's just reacting to the things people say. He has no interest in finding scum and is going for the easy lynch because he is scum.

So with that, I'll confirm my vote is TBF.

[TheBiggerFish]

No, I'm not scum because I'm the firefighter.

I don't want to reveal the details of my role, but that it is.

[Starver]

The 'fourth role' is Neutral/Town Weakness, Hector.  If not both, then either/or.  Claiming "gas-station attendant, [a Townie but] gives a false investigation result" indicates the latter.  Your choice of wording could have been better to indicate an 'unhelpful' rather than 'downright wrong' result.  Maybe that's what you were intending.

I'd half believe that we were all four 'given' a Neutral/Weak role, through Bastardy, except that we're not all saying this... (Also got to balance the "Won't lie, but won't tell the whole truth" statement from our Mod, who stated the definite archetypes at the top of the thread.  Unless that's a meta-Not-the-whole-truth.)

I'm the only one who knows you can't be Neutral/Weak, given the above.  Something I can't prove, any more than you can disprove, but I'm not the inconsistent one here.  You argue against TBF's switch, when you also switched.  (And, if you used the same logic as me, it's that you are more scared of the Special role than the Investigator. Especially if you feared you were already investigated and it was going to come out.)  And night-time actions (or inactions) were really the only thing we could go on, and - as far as I am concerned - I would credit those revelations towards my current overwhelming confidence.  (Ready too look a fool if I end up wrong.)

And I'm the one counter-claiming, on a (presumably) your unique archetype within the game. Why then try to target another? By all rights you should vote for me (please do!) or at least ask why I would be falsifying my role but not my alignment.  Then you'd let the others decide who is false-claiming to cover up their own scumminess.

(Hoping I've not created a rod for my own back, in future rounds, when I'm legitimately the one who needs to play the Magnificent Moriarty, to be hoist by my own petard by the next Super Sherlock.  Not that I think I'm super.  Normally I'm clueless after the first cycle if I'm a non-power role, and often if I am!  But this has been a particularly stimulating game so far.  Even if I'm wrong.)

Shutting up now.

[TheBiggerFish]

Really, I think this game needs another player.  It's only winnable by a correct lynch D1 or by nolynch D1 and getting the right target D2.

...Hmm.

Maybe we should do that.  See who gets targeted.