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[CLA]

So, I'm in the process of expanding the World Activities page on the wiki and I'm not very sure on a lot of things.
This thread is intended to gather that information.

Essentially, I need a list of what is and what isn't "activated", i.e. what happens after worldgen finished - during play (fortress/adventurer mode) without the player having to act.


You can see what I gathered up until now on the wiki page, as well as the talk page. The latter also includes dates of devlogs which mention these features. Some things mentioned in the devlogs between 34.11 and 40.01 didn't make it in the actual release (composite images of footprints for example), so I wanted to make extra sure.

Specifically, I want to know if the following events are happening:

• are new sites being created after worldgen finished? What about army camps at least? On that note, is that bug fixed where armies would remain in these forever?
• Festivals are only a worldgen thing for now, right?
• And knowledge, bookwriting, composing, etc happens even after worldgen, correct?
• Does the structure of sites change? i.e. bandits leaving ruins behind? I never observed this.
• regarding site ownership, is there anything the devlog mentions which conversely doesn't actually happen?
• are the caravans actually travelling the world, or are they still teleported? Are they even historical figures, or created on the spot?
• migrants are all historical figures, right? Are the first two waves still hardcoded, or are they taken from the historical figure pool as well?

Anything else you have to add or can confirm would be greatly appreciated. Compiling other things that don't happen yet, possibly contrary to popular belief would be great as well.

Thanks!

[Klitri]

From what I know.
1) I want to say no, but I think that reclaims can occur.
2) Unsure
3) Unsure, I believe so.
4) ? I want to say no, but I don't really understand the question.
5) ? Unsure
6) Caravans are generated on the spot, but the liason isn't.
7) I think it's a little of both, but I do know that dwarves in your fort become historical.

All my knowledge isn't 100% guaranteed.

[Niddhoger]

About knowledge... I can't say if they are still being generated off site, but I can say that PLAYER generated knowledge in one fort can make its way to another.  I resurrected a conquered civ (king was crowned off-site in a goblin conquered old fortress), so my site was both 1) the only site owned exclusively by my civ, and 2) NOT the mountainhome (king off-site, bugged 0 exported wealth/offerings prevent noble progression).  I also started a huge library and eventually worked up to 12-15 books written on site (caravan never brought any). 

After 6 years, I started a new fort.  The first caravan brings a book written in the early days of my previous fort.  It was a book about a book about traveling to my last fort, written in the same fort, by a dwarf with a nickname (so definitely written on site).  It was a copy, naturally, and I had been selling these to the caravan.  I believe caravan goods are destroyed upon leaving the map, and they were bound with rocks (and I only used metal for book-bindings). 

My point is that a book written in a player-generated fort was having copies of itself sold to other forts in the same world.  The next caravan brought about 5 books, half of which I remembered having been authored in my fort as well.  In a few years of game time, I might unretire that fort and check if any new books had been written. 

As far as migrants being actual figures... yes.  Yes they are.  As noted, the starting 7 and first couple of waves -can- be generated out of thin air if no one suitable is around.  I've gotten dwarves from previous forts in the first two waves though.  In the same fort I mentioned above, 3 of the dwarves within the first migrant wave had already had moods in my last fortress, and a few others are recognized from labor layouts and/or had nicknames assigned to them.  My third wave was actually entirely made up of scholars from my old fort.  A mixture of freshly drafted migrants and some military dwarves I drafted into the library (to see if their higher student/teacher levels would help them learn quicker).  I set up a library and they even wrote 7 new books that season. 

It also seemed like their locations assignments remained in-take.  Despite not being assigned to a location on-site, they actually arrived as historians and scholars with the purple icons.  I even got a tavern-keeper to migrate.  She just showed up already as a tavern-keeper, but wouldn't serve wine until I reassigned her to the new tavern.

And in that first fortress, ever single migrant was "vengeful for joining an existing conflict."  Considering my civ was still at war with the goblins, I assumed that is where the thought can from.  They likely weren't pre-generated goons either, and were either refugees or still living in that goblin conquered site (where the king resides). 

Oh yeah, and one of the human dancers visiting my tavern got promoted to a "lady consort" on site.  I suppose her husband inherited a title, and she got a letter in the mail informing her of her new blinking name-tag.  I checked in legends-viewer, and a war was being fought while my fortress was running between some humans and the nearby gobbos.  Sites were taken over while I grew plump helmets behind my fortifications.  Visitors were shuffling from tavern to tavern too. 

I believe caravans and liasons can be blocked by traveling armies, but I've always heard this as second hand (or worse) information.  I do think the contents of a caravan are randomized as soon as it is created at your map-edge, though.  For no other reason, the old trick of forbidding your wood/cloth/food stocks the week before the caravan arrives will force it to spawn with more goods of that nature.  So even if they caravans are tracked across the map, its contents are not.

[therahedwig]

Yeah, caravans don't check quantity, just whether it exists.

I haven't seen settlements generate, but I have seen camps generate, from traveling armies(popping up from one adventurer to the next). Other than that, in adventure mode there's the general travel stuff going on, traveling armies, traveling merchants, people going to the tavern.

Insurrections happen a lot right now due to confused bandits.

Festivals, sadly enough, are known to be world gen only.

Historical figures tend to be a mixed bag. It pulls a lot from the figures, but occasionally you can find a migrant or two that has been generated from thin air. And if you go adventure into a hamlet most figures are pulled from thin air.

For caravan paths the best way to check is to embark on a tiny island. I myself keep getting caravans that way, but maybe there's a more sensible explaination for that than random generation.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Are town populations actually 'pulled from thin air'? Aren't they just local population numbers being upgraded to historical figure status when you enter a site? The world's not just made up of historical figures.

[Max™]

There is a much higher balance of histfigs to dummies now. Maybe it is just my barhopping tendencies, as I admit I haven't spent a lot of time chatting with random merchants compared to performers in taverns, but yeah, there are way more folks with pasts and relationships and such. I took control of a goblin tavern keeper (you still get orders in your own bar! though they can't be filled normally, just gotta shlup a full 3 units of booze into a mug and trade it to people and try to keep it out of their pouch/quiver if they have one) and discovered that my husband and kid were hanging out in the bar with me.

As for the items being destroyed, I think they get stored in hammerspace unless you retire, then you get the bug where they all pop out and scatter around the fort. Other sites store items dropped on the ground, if you leave some old armor or whatnot at a lair or in a bar or a tomb and come back a year later it'll probably be sitting there exactly where it was.

Not totally sure now if people will grab things more, beyond people grabbing books and kids grabbing toys and tavern keepers grabbing mugs.

Which, btw, is NOT easy to keep up with, love your tavern keepers, those little dudes are troopers!

[therahedwig]

Are town populations actually 'pulled from thin air'? Aren't they just local population numbers being upgraded to historical figure status when you enter a site? The world's not just made up of historical figures.

There's more history figures and I think that if you generate into a site the whole population is turned into history figures instantly(Because you need to 'have known them since your/their birth', but once you talk to them, the majority of them have no family or history)

I am pretty sure that once you're in a new site and don't talk to people, those people don't become history figs, but I might be mistaken.

EDIT: Ideally someone would either run a fortress/adventurer for 10 years and then check legends for historical maps between 250(125) and 260(135), as those would show both territory changes as well as new settlements being generated on a single map. Longest fort I have for this version was only 5 years though.

[Probe1]

Thanks for putting all the effort into finding the answers to my question yesterday in the thread, CLA.

[Niddhoger]

Ok, so I poked around in Legends viewer in a world after retiring a fort.  It appears that world activation goes into a form of hibernation after a certain year, then reactivates when you embark.  What I mean is that no one founded a site after year 71 in a world with 550 years of generated history.  Wars were being fought and sites conquered, but nothing outside of human tombs were being built after that ~70 year cutoff point. 

Then, everything happens in year 550 (when I did my first embark).  Just about every civilization stopped to "reclaim" 1-3 sites.  Conquered civilizations without a ruler suddenly gained one (much like my own site).  I saw an elven king get proclaimed in a site a human civ had conquered hundreds of years ago.  This wasn't uncommon either.  Wars also picked up tempo as well.  Most wars were fought in the 100-200 year range.  However, about 1/3 to 1/2 the civs immediately started getting their war on around hte year 550.  Several wars were started a year afte rthat.  So wars at 550, wars at 551, wars at 552, etc. 

So again, it looks like world activation enters a "lite" mode for most of the generated history.  When you embark, it gets reactivated on turbo mode.  I'd have to play for several more years to see if anyone will ever "found" a site again, but I've only seen a flurry of "reclaims." I didn't try to parse through and examine the performing troupes and master/apprentice relationships, though.  You'd need a program to scan through all the logs to keep track of that mess.

[Kraetzin]

Ok, so I poked around in Legends viewer in a world after retiring a fort.  It appears that world activation goes into a form of hibernation after a certain year, then reactivates when you embark.  What I mean is that no one founded a site after year 71 in a world with 550 years of generated history.  Wars were being fought and sites conquered, but nothing outside of human tombs were being built after that ~70 year cutoff point. 

The lack of sites generated after year 71 is likely due to your world's site cap being hit. It would be interesting to start in year 10 and see if you get sites built after gen since you won't have hit the cap yet.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I do believe that sites are founded after worldgen.

[Zuglarkun]

Specifically, I want to know if the following events are happening:

• Does the structure of sites change? i.e. bandits leaving ruins behind? I never observed this.
• migrants are all historical figures, right? Are the first two waves still hardcoded, or are they taken from the historical figure pool as well?

Mind you, this was from my experience in running forts in 40.24, so things may have changed for 42.xx.
The structure of sites does change after embarking afaik. In Murderflood, the mountainhome was conquered and subsequently converted into a ruins ruled by a goblin bandit. This is reflected in legends mode and in the embark screen. This can be verified by abandoning the save and moving the embark parameters over the former mountainhomes.

Afaik, migrants aren't all historical figures, but they will become historical figures once they arrive in your fortress in fortress mode.

[Niddhoger]

Ok, so I poked around in Legends viewer in a world after retiring a fort.  It appears that world activation goes into a form of hibernation after a certain year, then reactivates when you embark.  What I mean is that no one founded a site after year 71 in a world with 550 years of generated history.  Wars were being fought and sites conquered, but nothing outside of human tombs were being built after that ~70 year cutoff point. 

The lack of sites generated after year 71 is likely due to your world's site cap being hit. It would be interesting to start in year 10 and see if you get sites built after gen since you won't have hit the cap yet.

Hmmm I had forgotten about the site-cap, but is it only for civilization-site or any sites? The humans were still building tombs (creating new sites) throughout the generated history.  Hundred+ years after everyone stopped settling villages and fortresses, they were still create new sites (tombs).  However, what I found most interesting was that all the civilizations waited until I embarked a fortress to reclaim their previously lost sites.  Dozens of sites that had been lost for centuries each... all reclaimed in the same year I started playing.  I didn't notice any reclamations before this.

[feelotraveller]

I played a number of 5 year/5 civs worldgens in 40.xx and in all of them there were a slurry of new sites created after embarking.

Also saw migrants being sometimes historical and sometimes thin air figures.  (I suspect they are thin air when appropriate historical figures are unavailable.)

[Untrustedlife]

Are town populations actually 'pulled from thin air'? Aren't they just local population numbers being upgraded to historical figure status when you enter a site? The world's not just made up of historical figures.

There's more history figures and I think that if you generate into a site the whole population is turned into history figures instantly(Because you need to 'have known them since your/their birth', but once you talk to them, the majority of them have no family or history)

I am pretty sure that once you're in a new site and don't talk to people, those people don't become history figs, but I might be mistaken.

EDIT: Ideally someone would either run a fortress/adventurer for 10 years and then check legends for historical maps between 250(125) and 260(135), as those would show both territory changes as well as new settlements being generated on a single map. Longest fort I have for this version was only 5 years though.

They are definetly not brought from thin air, the world tracks town populations and upgrades to hist figs as needed, I successfully depopulated  a hamlet permanantly in the adventure mode science thread.And toady confirmed populations are tracked in the resent fotf reply.So you can kill off entire races. etc.