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Author Topic: Military Tactics and Strategies?  (Read 11031 times)

wobbly

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2016, 09:25:28 am »

These are guesses as much as anything.

Why bother getting in formation
In close combat it means you can basically only be attacked from 1 direction. (At least sort of, I imagine the actual combat is a little messier).

simply ignore a big fight and send all your men to target farms, villages etc.
Getting there without being noticed & intercepted suggests a smaller force. How are you going to hold it?

to cut off their supplies?
What about their supply wagons. What about other farms/villages, if you're taking every farm/village you're splitting your force in to smaller & smaller pieces.
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Cheesecake

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #16 on: January 17, 2016, 09:35:35 am »

CK2 aww yeah. Didn't really like the war part, mostly solved stuff through murder. :p

These are guesses as much as anything.

Why bother getting in formation
In close combat it means you can basically only be attacked from 1 direction. (At least sort of, I imagine the actual combat is a little messier).

simply ignore a big fight and send all your men to target farms, villages etc.
Getting there without being noticed & intercepted suggests a smaller force. How are you going to hold it?

to cut off their supplies?
What about their supply wagons. What about other farms/villages, if you're taking every farm/village you're splitting your force in to smaller & smaller pieces.

Maybe they don't need to hold it? Just cripple the enemy so much that they can't afford to fight. Basically armies of sanctioned bandits (or privateers, who I assume did the same thing) that robbed the enemy and his people.
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wobbly

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2016, 09:42:01 am »

Sounds more like raiding, where you don't fight in formations or on the open battlefield in the 1st place.
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scrdest

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2016, 11:18:32 am »

If you *only* do that, there is absolutely nothing stopping the enemy forces from leisurely strolling into your capital and having your High Command suddenly remember they have a potentially fatal allergy to being at war.

And if we're talking about firearms-era warfare, you need to be able to resupply your own troops with things you simply cannot get from looting alone, because a gun without bullets is a fancy, expensive club.

Plus, as I mentioned above, if that kinda thing gets common, settlements get fortified and you simply cannot take them without a siege, which by necessity concentrates your troops, or artillery, which needs to be supplied and protected, so ditto.
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Baffler

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2016, 11:45:00 am »

Also worth mentioning is that a tight formation is much more resistant to attack by cavalry. Loosely arrayed they could just be separated and ridden down, but a formation all pointing their pikes in one direction could only be broken up with heavy losses. When firearms became widespread armies would mix them in with pikes in very complex arrangements, but the pikes eventually disappeared when bayonets became widespread, since a soldier could turn his musket into a "pike" in short order.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2016, 11:47:41 am by Baffler »
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Strife26

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #20 on: January 18, 2016, 01:23:55 pm »

The tipping point for the usefulness of formations came roughly at the American Civil War. Napoleonic Era, the primary ways to get the big overwhelming shock effect was massed cavalry charge, closing into true shock troop range, and finally missed musket fire at close range.

All three of those tactics require close-knit massed groups to perform and to defend. Once we hit the era of the minne ball (firing things they look closer to a modern bullet instead of a sphere) all three of those decrease. The continual creeping advancement of battlefield artillery is the second major backer.

By the time we're seeing rifles and machine guns, the formation centric warfare is very much broken, unless you're fighting someone who you utterly outclass (compare the British results in fighting tribal forces versus the Boers).

As lethality improves we get closer to my rule, that combat revolves around seeing and killing the enemy before he sees and kills you, it's just a matter of sight lines versus effective engagement ranges.
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Shazbot

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2016, 03:52:53 pm »

The Civil War began in neat lines and ended in trenches and rifle pits. The Confederacy's need to conserve lives and defensive posture lent itself to digging in; by the time of the final campaign it was standard procedure to dig a trench at the end of a day's march. Union forces occasionally were too green to wise up. The "Heavy Artillery Battalions", infantry formations freed up from Union defenses, performed excellent and precise marches shoulder-to-shoulder into Confederate grapeshot. Going to ground was no longer seen as cowardice.

And that's something worth repeating; when you look at a military technique or tactic that was continued well past its usefulness, or see some effort that surely any individual would know better than engage in, consider the extreme social stigma of cowardice. From giving up a seat on a lifeboat in the Titanic disaster to charging into the guns at Ypres, the idea of certain death is less painful than surviving as a coward. To be frank, this is the distinction that makes the Western concept of manhood.

That thread-derailing bombshell aside, the tactical see-saw between open-order and closed-order fighting (scattered or formations) has swung back and forth several times before the advent of gunpowder. The Iliad describes a series of individual duels between social equals in a manner that the samurai would take to ritual extremes. Centuries later the Greek city-states had adopted mass closed-order formations, the phalanx, which amounted to a solid wall of the city's men of property fighting as armored infantry (a bronze helmet is expensive) while the city's poor fought as slingers and javelineers in open order ahead of that line and cavalry from the city's financial elites (horses are very expensive) holding the ends of the phalanx. Taken as a whole this meta-formation, or order of battle, incorporated loose open-order troops for scouting, raiding and screening the heavily armored body of infantry. These infantrymen squared off against their opposing equals in the sort of pitched hand-to-hand battle they were best at, while their cavalry support harassed the enemy's flanks, drove off their skirmishers, or countered the enemy cavalry.

But crucial to understand is that there is more to the battle than simply the men on the field. There is also the "baggage", the food, supplies, tents, clothing, camp attendants, mules, carts, armorers, surgeons and women (of assorted professions or relation) needed to support several thousand men in the countryside. For most of history, this was amassed at the campsite selected the night before the battle. This is the root of protecting the rear; each army has some interest in reaching the enemy's baggage and either looting or burning it. This has long been the interest of cavalrymen as they had the speed to reach and withdraw from the enemy camp. In addition, the baggage is usually on or near to a road, and given the odds, these roads lead to the respective territory of the army. Capture the enemy's baggage, and at least the enemy army will be cold and hungry the next night. The loss of these supplies can bring the rapid end to an army's ability to remain in the field.

The natural solution to defending a point while attempting to attack another point is to stand between the two points. As a matter of geometry, you will be well placed to intercept anyone coming toward your camp. Meanwhile, if you have many people in this contest, it makes sense to form a line facing the point you intend to attack with the point you wish to defend behind you. This line is called the front, its ends the flank, behind it the rear.

Two masses of the same amount of men facing one another will both adopt a line of approximately the same spacing and length. This is due to various dynamics. First, if every yard of the front on your side is ten men deep, but every yard of the enemy is twenty men deep, (his front is half as wide), you are at an advantage. Only the first two or three ranks in a front can be in actual combat, while those behind them are unable to use their weapons. The longer line will bend around the flanks of the shorter line, encircling it and pushing the mass of the enemy in on itself. The longer line is able to use more of its combat power. This resulted in the Roman disaster of Cannae; Hannibal concealed the weakness of his center versus the strength of his flanks, and so the Roman army did not lengthen their line.

Lengthening a line in excess of the enemy's is called extending the flank. One can either extend the flank as well, form a front to the flank, or refuse the flank. A front to the flank creates a new line opposing the enemy's extention at an angle to the main body, creating a J or L shaped line. Gettysburg was a front to a flank. It allows the forces placed on the flank to be closer to the center of their army and reduces how far the need to travel. These are called interior lines. The enemy then has to attack along exterior lines; travelling farther from their body to attack the enemy. This is not only tiring, but in an era of horseback communications, reduces the efficiency of command and resupply. No RTS simulates a message horse riding from the general to the commander of a unit, but if you imagine one being required to issue an order, you would realize the sluggish nature of exterior lines (as well as why the German adoption of the radio allowed the blitzkrieg). Understanding the advantage of interior lines explains a tremendous amount of operational or strategic thinking. Refusing the flank is ignoring the enemy's extension on a flank in order to focus your forces where they will do more good. If your flank is rough terrain or defended by light forces who can harass and retreat, it may not require reinforcement. The battle of Leuctra was an example of an army simply ignoring one of their flanks to overwhelm the opposite.

I'll come back to write more later, I have an afternoon to fritter elsewhere.

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mainiac

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2016, 03:57:04 pm »

How hard is it for a modern tank to shoot while moving?
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Strife26

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2016, 04:01:25 pm »

Depends on the tank and the crew.

((Strife gunning an Abrams and it's easy.))
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NullForceOmega

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2016, 04:02:54 pm »

Depends on the tank and the crew, a skilled gunner in an M-1 can be extremely accurate on the fly, and several newer generation tanks are acquiring that ability as well, but most current-gen tanks are not adequately stabilized to fire in motion.

Got ninja'd by the other tanker, shame to my crew.
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Shazbot

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2016, 04:05:55 pm »

The Sherman and several other American tanks of WWII had gyroscopic stabilizers that could soften the gun's vertical travel while moving, although it would be a while until the horizontal travel was also adjusted for. Horizontal travel was best stabilized by kicking the driver.
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mainiac

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2016, 04:23:39 pm »

Depends on the tank and the crew.

((Strife gunning an Abrams and it's easy.))

So if you were going full speed in an Abrams would it be no harder then doing it from a standstill?
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Strife26

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2016, 04:34:48 pm »

Slightly harder, but engagement time would actually be faster compared to the defense, just because of the power of defilade.

The Sherman and several other American tanks of WWII had gyroscopic stabilizers that could soften the gun's vertical travel while moving, although it would be a while until the horizontal travel was also adjusted for. Horizontal travel was best stabilized by kicking the driver.

Kicking the driver is immediate action for a great many number of problems.
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Sheb

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2016, 09:20:42 am »

Power of defilade?
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Helgoland

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Re: Military Tactics and Strategies?
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2016, 09:51:24 am »

Fucking up the enemy's flank, as far as I can tell.
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