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Author Topic: Personal Weapons for Civilians  (Read 2541 times)

Shurikane

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Personal Weapons for Civilians
« on: December 28, 2015, 01:17:06 pm »

This is largely an improvement on "enable mining for everyone so they carry picks".

In this suggestion, a non-military dwarf will carry a small, personal weapon with him at all times.  Nothing heavy or unwieldy, but rather a short sword, a knife, a small hand axe, or other portable object that he can use to defend himself should he fall under attack.
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LMeire

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2015, 04:08:30 pm »

Make sense, humans always carry things like boning knives and those could be pretty lethal if the residents had as much practice fending off threats as dwarves do. To add on to it, it'd be pretty interesting if they also occasionally grabbed moderately heavy things as improvised weaponry like wooden chairs or clay pots, especially if every dwarf in the fort is going to jump into every conflict they see.
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Trappington

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2015, 07:38:13 pm »

Sounds like a great idea, but may need some tweaking due to bar fights in the new taverns.  Perhaps a "bouncerdwarf" position could be made so that a total blood bath wouldn't ensue every time a drunken brawl starts up.  Other than that, I can't see any reason for this to not be included in the game.  It would give those copper daggers that kobolds always carry a use other than just melting them down for the metal.
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Detoxicated

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2015, 11:41:37 pm »

It would depend on how they view tradition and harmony and peace.
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Bumber

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AceSV

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #5 on: December 31, 2015, 07:06:12 am »

In viking society it was actually required for all grown men to carry some sort of weapon with them.  I think this was considered proof of free status, but that might have changed from place to place and time to time. 

This has probably been in one of the previous topics, but it makes sense to me that you should be able to define types of weapons as civilian weapons and others as military weapons, so i.e. staff, club, seax, hatchet are civilian, sword, battle axe, spear, etc, are military.  Or it could be based on materials, civilians get wood, bone, stone and bronze while military gets the steel and adamantine. 

If civilians could carry weapons, it would be great to have some sort of meeting area that works like a gym or dojo or arena where they can practice martial arts, when they feel the need to.  Dwarves could spar with each other or share knowledge about martial arts like the scholars do (I guess that could be the same as the squad demonstrations).  Crippled militia members could be assigned to the dojo to pass on their knowledge to the next generation.  Might be possible to have duels or tournaments or something pop up from time to time as well.  Combat treatises were popular in Europe and Asia, though perhaps not as much pre-1400, maybe there could be a way to wright manuals on martial arts skills. 
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dwarfhoplite

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #6 on: December 31, 2015, 08:03:49 am »

I like to have distinct separation of miltary dwarves and civilians.
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catoblepas

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #7 on: December 31, 2015, 12:24:41 pm »

This is something I have wanted for quite some time. It seems pretty logical that civilians might carry a dagger or boning knife or even a club or staff.

Perhaps a tag on the entity could determine which weapons are considered 'civilian'? That way civilians wouldn't be grabbing pikes and axes and such.
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Roofless

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2016, 05:00:39 am »

Maybe a labor setting would be appropriate? Something like "Self-defence".
If turned on - a dwarf will carry a personal weapon and when in danger will fend for himself.
If turned off - a dwarf will not carry a personal weapon and when in danger will run for his life.
This will also fix suicidal tendencies of some fish cleaners trying to hug a bronze collosus to death.

Maybe even make self-defence equipent be defined with a "permitted items" list, so dorfs can equip not only weapons, but some armor as well.

EDIT: grammarrr
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 05:05:50 am by Roofless »
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peasant cretin

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2016, 07:58:43 am »

Grimlocke had pointed out (in a modding thread started by AceSV) that items in item_tool.txt with the tokens [TOOL_USE:MEAT_CARVING], [TOOL_USE:MEAT_SLICING], [TOOL_USE:MEAT_BONING] will generate in NPC inventories (provided those tool types are in the entity.txt). This is why in vanilla DF only humans carry boning/carving/slicing knives.

So while creation of a variety of "civilian" weapons can be modded into the item_tool.txt and placed under any entity, from the standpoint of a workaround, it's clunky as it'll be pretty random as to who gets what type of item and runs up against what's already hardcoded (this being something that always happens regardless of what or how you mod). While you can make hewing axes as tools, there's no guarantee a woodcutter will end up with one. Instead, maybe a gemcutter will generate with a hewing axe. It seems a woodcutter will always generate with the axe type from either item_weapon.txt or via something in the .exe.

The big need is to have an assignment token that is also associated with a profession. It's just far too odd that a woodcutter cuts wood with a battle axe because that's what's hardcoded. I'm pushing this part of the suggestion into the category of less hardcoded generation and more towards derived from raws. This can be set to "already in the standard game raws" for non-modders and also makes it possible to customize if a player so chooses.

Thoughts?


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AceSV

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2016, 07:23:18 pm »

Probably also relevant to point out that carrying a weapon will make more sense once owning a weapon becomes possible, meaning a functioning dwarven economy.  Of course, then you need a way to prevent wealthy nobles from buying up all the adamantine lightsabers.  I'm thinking you could mark weapons as "Military use only" either after they are obtained or there could be a little toggle on the forge.  Or maybe only dwarves that own a weapon or armor rack would try to obtain weapons. 
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Roofless

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2016, 04:48:35 am »

Oh, that gives me a thought.
Permitting dwarfs to own a weapon can be (theoretically) a real pain in the beard.
Making self-defence a labor makes even more sense as types of weapons permitted for civilian use can be defined via the same routine as ammunition is currently defined for hunting/training/combat.
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AceSV

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2016, 01:55:04 am »

Oh, that gives me a thought.
Permitting dwarfs to own a weapon can be (theoretically) a real pain in the beard.
Making self-defence a labor makes even more sense as types of weapons permitted for civilian use can be defined via the same routine as ammunition is currently defined for hunting/training/combat.

But if self-defense is a labor, you would have a bunch of dwarves just doing self-defense instead of other jobs, probably like how they all try to fish if they can instead of work. 
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could God in fact send a kea to steal Excalibur and thereby usurp the throne of the Britons? 
Furry Fortress 3 The third saga unfurls.  Now with Ninja Frogs and Dogfish Pirates.

Roofless

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2016, 02:39:03 am »

Good point. I haven't thought of that.
Then it's a question of what is more easily implemented - dorfs owning weapons or setting up self-defence labor that will be of actual use.
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Deboche

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Re: Personal Weapons for Civilians
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2016, 08:32:53 am »

I like this idea. It'd be nice if you could define some zones where dwarves should always be unarmed and others where they should always be armed(caverns, outside, taverns, etc). You could have weapon racks around where they could pick up a weapon.

On the other hand, dwarves are always drunk, especially in this release, so is it really a good idea?
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