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[azeroth2b]

Hello All,

  I've got my fort set up with a good palisade, moat, etc. I'm getting ready to set up archer/crossbow towers to guard the drawbridge.  These leaves me with some questions related to Dwarven abilities:
 - How far can Dwarves see? 
 - How far can they shoot?
 - How do Z-Levels affect this?

I tried google and searching here, but the terms "view distance" and "Shoot distance" haven't proven too useful.  It's fine if this won't work at all, I'm okay with some aesthetics, but then I'll also know how to build a proper drawbridge defense.

*UPDATE*
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Archery

So, near as I can tell from the Wiki, they shoot at 20 tiles but bolts travel up to 30 striking foe but not ally.  The higher the z-level, the short the range when shooting to lower z-levels.

I think I'm going to build 1-wagon wide trenches as the main "approach" path, then put some towers over the trench so I can fill them with dwarves to shoot "downward", even if there is a penalty for that.  A bridge to enable shortcuts in times of safety. etc etc.

  Thanks in advance!

[Niddhoger]

I know you didn't ask specifically for this, but I believe ballista fire at around 100-120 tiles.  They are highly innacurate though, so you'll want to only shoot them down long, narrow corridors.  I usually make one as a "b" side entrance to my fort.  At the end of the hall, anything still alive has to make it through a gauntlet of drunken axelords or a drowning chamber (if an aquifer is present).  I generally don't fool with marksdorfs anymore, they tend to jump off fortifications, refuse to shoot without a valid path (defeating the whole point of using the ranged weapon in the first place), or (with quiver full) rush forward and start bashing targets with their crossbow.  I'm not sure if these bugs have been fixed yet...

[steel jackal]

I know you didn't ask specifically for this, but I believe ballista fire at around 100-120 tiles.  They are highly innacurate though, so you'll want to only shoot them down long, narrow corridors.  I usually make one as a "b" side entrance to my fort.  At the end of the hall, anything still alive has to make it through a gauntlet of drunken axelords or a drowning chamber (if an aquifer is present).  I generally don't fool with marksdorfs anymore, they tend to jump off fortifications, refuse to shoot without a valid path (defeating the whole point of using the ranged weapon in the first place), or (with quiver full) rush forward and start bashing targets with their crossbow.  I'm not sure if these bugs have been fixed yet...

its not a bug, if the enemy get whiten a few tiles they will charge because its hard to load the bow when in melee but its easy to swing it

[azeroth2b]

Thoughts on the "won't shoot if can't path" issue? That's kind of a deal breaker. ...

[Niddhoger]

I know you didn't ask specifically for this, but I believe ballista fire at around 100-120 tiles.  They are highly innacurate though, so you'll want to only shoot them down long, narrow corridors.  I usually make one as a "b" side entrance to my fort.  At the end of the hall, anything still alive has to make it through a gauntlet of drunken axelords or a drowning chamber (if an aquifer is present).  I generally don't fool with marksdorfs anymore, they tend to jump off fortifications, refuse to shoot without a valid path (defeating the whole point of using the ranged weapon in the first place), or (with quiver full) rush forward and start bashing targets with their crossbow.  I'm not sure if these bugs have been fixed yet...

its not a bug, if the enemy get whiten a few tiles they will charge because its hard to load the bow when in melee but its easy to swing it

Nah, I'm talking about the marksdorfs that will jump off walls to charge a target with their crossbow stock held high... while also carrying a full quiver.  This may be a combination of things, though.  They jump off the wall to get a valid path to the target, then realize they are too close to fire and just charge in. 

However you slice it, marksdorfs are one dumb bunch of Urists.

[azeroth2b]

Well, then I won't give them access to the top of the wall!

That'll work, right?

[Urist McVoyager]

Roof over the fortifications. That should prevent them jumping. Not that they'll shoot without a clear path, but maybe that just means you have to keep the drawbridge open?

[Niddhoger]

Roof over the fortifications. That should prevent them jumping. Not that they'll shoot without a clear path, but maybe that just means you have to keep the drawbridge open?

Which makes things even more convoluted.  On top of getting their uniforms just right, designating ammo for training and combat, making sure they dump their training ammo and pick up their combat ammo when being called to duty, properly designating their archery targets ONE AT A TIME, building the fortifications, roofing over the fortifications, and then making sure there is some long snaking path from the enemy to the marksdorf so he'll shoot (filled with traps or at least sealable with a bridge/lever).  Its all quite the bit of work for units that can barely shoot 20 tiles minus their elevation, and aren't half as lethal as they were a couple years ago.

I suppose you could also appoint war-beasts to act like tanks for them (ala WoW hunter class), or just leave them behind a couple squads of melee dorfs (does friendly fire exist for marksdorfs?).  But damnit! There is just something so bloody themantic about marksmen on the walls picking off any who dare get too close!

[Geltor]

Roof over the fortifications. That should prevent them jumping. Not that they'll shoot without a clear path, but maybe that just means you have to keep the drawbridge open?

they will jump through the fortifications to charge at enemies..path or no path. the only real solution is to have the fortifications far from enemies

[Urist McVoyager]

Well that's fucked up. Definitely needs fixed.

As for the ammo situation, IIRC Toady already fixed the whole "oops, wrong ammo" bug in one of the latest patches.

[greycat]

Thoughts on the "won't shoot if can't path" issue?

Is not an issue.  I've never seen such a thing.  Dwarves with a crossbow, a bolt, and the will to fight will shoot any hostile unit they see.  Even if the drawbridges are all up.

Getting them into position, with ammo, and with their courage intact?  That's another issue.

[azeroth2b]

Heh. I've tested deployment to the towers. ...

I got 1 of 10 actually in the tower. The rest all over the ground outside the tower. Next step, deploy with the drawbridge raised.

[mgotthard]

If the tower is at ground level, or has ground level nearby, good luck.  P

The 'station' order has a radius of 3 tiles around the point, so if you stick it next to a wall, about half of your dwarves will choose to stand on the *other* side of your wall.
Hence why you need to put the tower up in the air, or excavate a ditch or moat.

[azeroth2b]

Yea, the real plan is to seal off the fort first.I was just describing some fun.

The towers are 10 tiles away with one access bridge. So. .. hopefully that will get them close but safely  inside

[Bumber]

You can use defend burrow schedules instead of station orders.