Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Author Topic: Digging up the blue stuff.  (Read 874 times)

Salkryn

  • Bay Watcher
  • Pining for the fnords.
    • View Profile
Digging up the blue stuff.
« on: December 23, 2015, 02:22:58 pm »

So, I've reached a vein of delicious cotton candy beneath my fort. I'd like to take advantage of this, but I'd like to avoid inviting the circus this early into my fort's life. Any suggestions for tapping that resource without terribad things happening?
Logged

Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

  • Bay Watcher
  • what even is truth
    • View Profile
    • test
Re: Digging up the blue stuff.
« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2015, 02:31:42 pm »

Dig down through normal stone to each of the candy layers. Smooth and carve a fortification into all of the accessible tiles. If no hole is found, dig out the candy and repeat. Be aware that the candy above will need support; I would try this starting at the top and going down.

Anything could go wrong. Seclude the mining operation, and have a bridge handy for if when the clowns escape. Put the lever where it will always have a dwarf near to push it. Use "do it now" function.

Above all, have ‼FUN‼, fellow dwarfer!
Logged
Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Telgin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Professional Programmer
    • View Profile
Re: Digging up the blue stuff.
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2015, 02:32:43 pm »

If you want to do it relatively safely without cheating, you could always just arrange some cave in traps so that if you hit a hollow vein you collapse things to seal off your fort.  Your FPS will probably still take a nosedive, but you'll be safe.

Even easier and without the risk of FPS death is just save scumming, but that's cheating too in its own way.   :)

I believe there used to be, and probably still are, a few ways to cheat by attempting to build things over the undug veins, with the goal of seeing the markers change color over hollow points or something.  I never tried it myself so I don't know how it works exactly.
Logged
Through pain, I find wisdom.

Dozebôm Lolumzalìs

  • Bay Watcher
  • what even is truth
    • View Profile
    • test
Re: Digging up the blue stuff.
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2015, 02:46:26 pm »

Are you implying my way's cheating?  >:(  ;)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My main point is, use a drawbridge to seal them off! And then a wall, just in case a tantruming dwarf comes by. And then another steel drawbridge. And then an ice wall, for the lulz.
Logged
Quote from: King James Programming
...Simplification leaves us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes...
Quote from: Salvané Descocrates
The only difference between me and a fool is that I know that I know only that I think, therefore I am.
Sigtext!

Niddhoger

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Digging up the blue stuff.
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2015, 03:25:18 pm »

Are you implying my way's cheating?  >:(  ;)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

My main point is, use a drawbridge to seal them off! And then a wall, just in case a tantruming dwarf comes by. And then another steel drawbridge. And then an ice wall, for the lulz.

Then prepare a nice game of "checkers" for your demon visitors after that, so that you can drink strawberry wine in Hell after you win the game ^.~

In all seriousness though, I tried to "shave" the excess candy off a hollow pillar once.  I double, triple, quadruple, quintuple checked that damned thing and STILL couldn't find the "leak" that destroyed my frotress.  I didn't even carve fortifications.  I eventually read about a (bug?) FEATURE that allowed the demons to escape via diagonal "gaps" across z-levels. 
Logged

PatrikLundell

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Digging up the blue stuff.
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2015, 04:18:31 pm »

The only leaks I'm aware of is the horrible up/down (and probably down only) staircase one, plus, of course, roofless tiles (built fortifications, obsidianization below an up/down staircase removing the floor, and thus provides a diagonal path). If there are others I'm definitely interested in knowing about them.

Given the subject, there are spoliers below.



There is a safe way to mine the "excess" candy, and that is to note that the hollow center is a 2*2 square, and thus requires a 4*4 pillar, so if you have less than 3 in a row you can mine it (provided, of course, the less than 3 isn't due to your mining...).
Also, each level of the hole is shifted at most one tile in the X and Y direction independently. This means that if you've managed to establish that the (potential) hollow is in a 4*4 pillar, you can safely channel (or dig) two tiles away from that (i.e. outside of a 6*6 rectangle).

The problems with the fortification method is that once you've found a hollow the FPS takes a bit of a hit as the clowns are spawned, and clowns can use range attacks through the fortifications (as well as scare dorfs). Because of this, I shave first and go for the fortification as the last stage.

The only good method I've found to mine the candy in the magma sea is to obsidianize the magma, which means leading running water there. You then find the X*Y box you need to obsidianize by taking the maximum extent of the outcropping "periodized" to the top level in each of the N/W/S/E direction ("periodized" in this case means taking into account that you need an obsidian wall outside of the outcropping, and in doing so you need to be one tile further out on the next sea level above, and in order to do that...

Dealing with the magma flow covering magma is its own mess...

Also, don't repeat my mistake of digging too deep. I probed beneath an outcropping at the first complete SMR layer. That turned out to be the only such layer. My miner died without being able to take a single step, and my defenses were only rudimentary (and the lever pullers were too slow).

Finally, secure the dig site(s) with single tile access corridors blocked by drawbridges (more than one is good), as indicated above. I also use door that I lock behind the miner when I either break intentionally of the fan gets some extra workout. That won't stop them, of course, but buys time for the lazy lever operators to do their job.
I'm partial to menacing spikes on repeat for clown elimination, but there are other methods, such as checkers. After you've dealt with the spawned invasion force, you've only got the standard roamers to deal with, and there is a way to handle them that makes securing the circus completely surprisingly easy (a large amount of work to be sure, but still just work, not much in the way of danger).
Logged

Purple Gorilla

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Digging up the blue stuff.
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2015, 04:26:12 pm »

There is a much better aproach than just digging in and let them out (By the way, generating [clowns] without releasing them causes a significant FPS drop) :

Each layer of an [candy] vein, consists of a central 4x4 block and some random tiles. This 4x4 Block may or may not be hollowed. If you only dig into tiles which can't be the 4x4 block you are safe, and won't even generate [clowns].

Example:
Code: [Select]
.aa.aa...
aaAAAA...
..A??A..a
aaA??Aaaa
..AAAAa..
..aaa.a..
aaaa.aa..

.= Rock
a= [Candy] save to be mined
A= [Candy] NOT save
?= [CAndy] or [HFS]

For every layer, dig away the sourounding rock. Then check, if a front of [candy] is 4 tiles or larger. If not, you can dig into it. With this method, it is possible to get all, but the central colum out of most layers. Only sometimes, it is not possible to continue, for example if you find a 5x5 block there is no way (exept rock radar) to know, there it is hollowed, so leave it.

If you see such a front ...
Code: [Select]
..aa..a..it is save to dig the three tiles out.

If you see such a front ...
Code: [Select]
..aaaaa.....it is not save.

EDIT: OK PatrickLundell sayed everything while I typed...
« Last Edit: December 23, 2015, 04:31:01 pm by Purple Gorilla »
Logged

Bearskie

  • Bay Watcher
  • Nyam nyam
    • View Profile
Re: Digging up the blue stuff.
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2015, 08:03:49 pm »

But yours has the nicer illustration.  :)