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[Halnoth]

I'm starting to get a very strong feeling that dwarves that have been moody, and created an artefact, will never write a book again.
Not making a bug report yet, since it's just a strong hunch.


So please, anyone prove me wrong, if you have a dwarf that has created an artefact, and is still able to write books.

A few things here;

1. I don't think books are affecting artifacts. I think the rate of moods was decreased. I say this because I have over 200 books in my current fort and just got a mood.

2. None of my current scholars has had a mood. However, I doubt having a mood would stop them from writing a book. If it did then dwarves would not write multiple books.

3. Books are more like named weapons than actual artifacts. Hence the blue text in the artifact list.

[martinuzz]

I have 3 scholars in my current fort that did write a book or two before creating an artefact, but have not written any after. The two scholars that do crank out books at an alarming rate have not had a mood yet.
Still, it could be just coincidence. I'm waiting for my high intensity writers to get a mood, see if that stops them from writing more.

[Niddhoger]

I have 3 scholars in my current fort that did write a book or two before creating an artefact, but have not written any after. The two scholars that do crank out books at an alarming rate have not had a mood yet.
Still, it could be just coincidence. I'm waiting for my high intensity writers to get a mood, see if that stops them from writing more.

If so, this has to be a bug.  As mentioned, a dorf shouldn't be able to write several books if they count as an artifact.

[Halnoth]

I noticed that a lot of my dwarves (like 40%) were constantly praying. Well I found this gem http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=9324 and I realized that this temple bug was probably interfering with my scholars and might account for at least some of the low skill growth.

[martinuzz]

Yeah I have to micromanage my polytheist dwarves regularily using civilian alert burrows, and retiring / recreating temples as needed.

[Urist McGoombaBrother]

Thx for writing your experience down in this topic. But I fear, I have some more questions. Maybe you can help me out.

1) Which are those fourteen academic skills, you mentioned? Are those related to the skills mentionend here: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Skill ? So when I have got a legendary mechanic and assign him as scholar, he is more likely to write high quality Engineering Scrolls and Quires? At the embark screen I can see Critical Thinker, Logician, Mathematician, Astronomer, Chemist, Geographer, Optics Engineer, Fluid Engineer. Probably those are 8 of the 12. Do they effect anything else beside the quality of their writings?

2) How the topics mentioned here are related to the skills? http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Topic  Are they chosen randomly? Or is this another package of various skills additonal to the 12 a.m. academic skills? And the higher those are, the more likely they write a book about a specific topic?

3) Where can I see the relevant academic and topic skills in Dwarf Therapist? I can find Student/Teacher in the Social Tab and different values for those in the Military Tab. Am I missing something or aren't they implemented yet?

4) Do you assign Scholars and Scribes to the library as "Full-Time-Job"? Or do they have other jobs assigned as well like Mechanics, Carpenter, etc.?

[Dozebôm Lolumzalěs]

Scholars can have other jobs but they rarely if ever do them.

[Halnoth]

Thx for writing your experience down in this topic. But I fear, I have some more questions. Maybe you can help me out.

1) Which are those fourteen academic skills, you mentioned? Are those related to the skills mentionend here: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Skill ? So when I have got a legendary mechanic and assign him as scholar, he is more likely to write high quality Engineering Scrolls and Quires? At the embark screen I can see Critical Thinker, Logician, Mathematician, Astronomer, Chemist, Geographer, Optics Engineer, Fluid Engineer. Probably those are 8 of the 12. Do they effect anything else beside the quality of their writings?

2) How the topics mentioned here are related to the skills? http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Topic  Are they chosen randomly? Or is this another package of various skills additonal to the 12 a.m. academic skills? And the higher those are, the more likely they write a book about a specific topic?

3) Where can I see the relevant academic and topic skills in Dwarf Therapist? I can find Student/Teacher in the Social Tab and different values for those in the Military Tab. Am I missing something or aren't they implemented yet?

4) Do you assign Scholars and Scribes to the library as "Full-Time-Job"? Or do they have other jobs assigned as well like Mechanics, Carpenter, etc.?

1. The academic skills I am talking about are; Critical Thinker, Logician, Mathematician, Astronomer, Chemist, Geographer, Optics Engineer, Fluid Engineer, Diagnosis, Wound Dresser, Bone Doctor, Surgeon, Suturer, and Mechanic. Those are the original 14 I was talking about. However, I have since found that Tracker, Organizer, Poet, and Record Keeper are also academic skills. These affect the frequency that the scholar writes about a topic or ponders/discuss/teaches a topic. I am not sure if it affects quality. It does affect whether a dwarf will enter a master/apprentice relationship.

Of course Diagnosis, Wound Dresser, Bone Doctor, Surgeon, Suturer, Organizer, Poet, Record Keeper, and Mechanic all have practical uses in game but only the medical skills really matter since the other skills can be leveled more efficiently in other ways.

There are also writing, wordsmith, student, speaker, and teacher which are all used in the process.

2. The topics are general categories of knowledge. Each skill falls into a topic. I am not sure exactly which are paired up but some are fairly obvious.

3. You have to create a new grid in therapist and include all of the skills you want.

4. Being a scholar is pretty much a full time job. Dwarves will eventually do other things as well but it can take a season or so to get around to it. If you make your mechanic a scholar then it is best to take him off the job when you need him to work. Same goes for doctors.

However, scribing is in no way a full time job. Dwarves will only occasionally copy a book.

[therahedwig]

I have another thing that could be scienced while you are sciencing skills: What determines the price of a book and scroll?

[Urist McGoombaBrother]

@Halnoth: Many thx for your comprehensive response.

Now I set up a new skill grid in Dwarf Therapist and added those 18 academic skills plus the other 5 (Writer, Wordsmith, etc.) for a quick overview. Good to know. :-)

So to sum up, I have to assign the most skilled dwarfs related to the 18 academic skills to the library as scholars and hope for the best?

What does it mean when a dwarf has some pretty good academic skills (like Level 10), but 0 in writing, wordsmith, student, speaker, and teacher. Will he be unable to neither write books nor to teach others? Or will he learn how to teach and write on the fly?

Does it make sense to assign good teachers/writers/wordsmiths/etc. to the library without a single academic skill? And what about dwarfs with neither academic nor teaching/writing/student/etc. skills at all?

[Halnoth]

@Halnoth: Many thx for your comprehensive response.

Now I set up a new skill grid in Dwarf Therapist and added those 18 academic skills plus the other 5 (Writer, Wordsmith, etc.) for a quick overview. Good to know. :-)

So to sum up, I have to assign the most skilled dwarfs related to the 18 academic skills to the library as scholars and hope for the best?

What does it mean when a dwarf has some pretty good academic skills (like Level 10), but 0 in writing, wordsmith, student, speaker, and teacher. Will he be unable to neither write books nor to teach others? Or will he learn how to teach and write on the fly?

Does it make sense to assign good teachers/writers/wordsmiths/etc. to the library without a single academic skill? And what about dwarfs with neither academic nor teaching/writing/student/etc. skills at all?

The academic skill matters more than writing, wordsmith, student, speaker, and teacher.

If a dwarf has level 10 in something they will form a master/apprentice relationship with other scholars. The other skills just determine the quality of the writing or lesson (if they are teaching) and does not really effect the rate that books are written.

It is better to have a dwarf with a high level in the academic skill than a dwarf with a high level in the auxillery skills.

And to answer the price of scrolls question; the price appears to be based on material with a modifier based on the quality of the prose. The tone does not seem to affect price at all.

[Urist McGoombaBrother]

Many thx for all that information. It really helps. You truly studied dwarven studies.

[martinuzz]

I do believe Pump Operator is an academic skill as well. I noticed one of my scholars being dabbling in it, in a fort that had no pumps at all.

[Halnoth]

I do believe Pump Operator is an academic skill as well. I noticed one of my scholars being dabbling in it, in a fort that had no pumps at all.

Possible.

I'll do a test fort with pump operators, siege engineers, and siege operators and see what happens.

Also, I found a work around for the temple issue. I made dwarves worship a regional force instead of a pantheon. So basically, it makes dwarves worship the home mountains instead of a collection of gods. Not ideal I know, and requires some modding but it solves the issue.

[Montieth]

Hmm, I have 4 scholars and 1 scribe and have 2 written works so far with 3 copies made (total). I have seen my scholars going off and doing other tasks like building, working in the forges and such.

I have 3 tables/chairs in the library. Perhaps I need more tables/chairs?