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[martinuzz]

For the first 2 years of my fort, I was visited by the dwarven caravan, but no outpost liaison.
This went with a pop up message saying "No outpost Liaison.... How Strange...."

I thought this meant I had (accidentally) embarked from a dead civ.

But now, autumn year 3.

"The outpost liaison has arrived"

Now I am at a loss. Did my civilization revive itself somehow? Or did the no outpost liaison for the first 2 years thing have another reason?

[Loci]

An extinct civilization sends no caravans, so your liaison must have been missing for some other reason.

[vjek]

So far, from what I've seen, the traders that Armok conjures out of the void for caravans end up taking positions in the dead dwarven civ, including leader and liaison, for the next year.

I wish there was a way to prevent both the liaison and caravan permanently, (without raw editing) but even embarking in a world so hostile no animals or goblins can survive, dwarven caravans happily travel to your site as though immune.    The NO TRADE embark tag apparently does not apply to dwarves.

To be clear, in vanilla DF 0.42.x, I have never seen any conditions under which the dwarven caravan does not arrive alive and well.  I've seen goblin sieges arrive completely dead (they're dead the moment they spawn on the screen edge) and I've seen embarks where no animals spawn at all, ever.  I've even successfully created an island in the ocean, which is smaller than a single local/region tile, (so it's entirely surrounded by ocean) and sure enough, the dwarven caravan manages to arrive without incident. 

[SaD-82]

I've even successfully created an island in the ocean, which is smaller than a single local/region tile, (so it's entirely surrounded by ocean) and sure enough, the dwarven caravan manages to arrive without incident. 

The dwarven highways are beneath the earth - they don't need to sail. They just need a pickaxe to find you. 

[Astrid]

It is possible that the Outpost liason gets killed before he arrives at your fort so far i have heard.
After all the world continues to simulate in the background.

[steel jackal]

ive had this happen to me before

did any of your dwarves become the king or queen?

if they did i think what happened was that the game was like "oh theres a dwarven civ left, since dwarves are still alive i can now randomly generate a new fort"

i think the game just needs there to be a single dwarven fort and then it can make dwarves come out of nowhere

just my guess though

[martinuzz]

So far, from what I've seen, the traders that Armok conjures out of the void for caravans end up taking positions in the dead dwarven civ, including leader and liaison, for the next year.

I wish there was a way to prevent both the liaison and caravan permanently, (without raw editing) but even embarking in a world so hostile no animals or goblins can survive, dwarven caravans happily travel to your site as though immune.    The NO TRADE embark tag apparently does not apply to dwarves.

To be clear, in vanilla DF 0.42.x, I have never seen any conditions under which the dwarven caravan does not arrive alive and well.  I've seen goblin sieges arrive completely dead (they're dead the moment they spawn on the screen edge) and I've seen embarks where no animals spawn at all, ever.  I've even successfully created an island in the ocean, which is smaller than a single local/region tile, (so it's entirely surrounded by ocean) and sure enough, the dwarven caravan manages to arrive without incident. 

That must be what is going on. My civ started out dead for sure, since all my immigrants are randomly generated (they do not have any "former member of.." at all)

[PatrikLundell]

I almost never get any migrants who have any past or any relatives (apart from a possible spouse or child(ren) also in the same wave). Despite that, I usually get regular migrant waves. The caravan and the trade liaison may or may not show up. If you get more than two migrant waves your civ is "merely" dying, and the same goes for a caravan: if it arrives the civ is "just" dying. If the civ screen show a monarch the civ is not dead, nor is it dead if one of your dorfs become a monarch, as dead civs don't elect/appoint new monarchs.

My current fortress is a living civ, but I still haven't had a single migrant with a past (71 dorfs in the fortress, about 100 in the civ before embark according to legends). It could possibly be an unfortunate side effect of the "cull unimportant historical figures" world gen setting, though.

[bobchaos]

the fort I just retired was the resurrection of a civ dead for 130 years according to legends. I started with no king and no liaison, but the caravan is hard coded, only way you won't get it is if you mod it out. In the first year on of my dwarves claimed the throne for herself. Queen Feb had no notable family, so she didn't inherit the throne. I can't recall the exact wording of the text either but it was different from the usual succession.

Anyhow, after the rise of Queen Feb, a liaison was named, so on the second year he showed up with the caravan.

[PatrikLundell]

You still had a dying civ, bobchaos, not a dead one. I've seen two different monarch announcement. "After a polite discussion..." is probably generated when the old monarch dies, while I guess the other one is generated based on some other condition, possibly the monarch dying before the embark is reached. I've seen the second one happen immediately after the first fight against something, and I've seen it as spring arrives, as well as almost immediately upon reaching the embark. There seems to be a good chance the expedition leader becomes the new monarch with the second one, at least when the ascension happens at the one year mark, which I've used to get a low mandate monarch.

[bobchaos]

my civ held no sites and had no living historical figures... what do you call dead?

[FortunaDraken]

A dead civ should have no civ sites or figures. By the sounds of it, bobchaos' civ was definitely dead, then rose from the void because Dwarf Fortress. The liason though should've been with your fort, I thought they lived in the Mountainhome, and if you have the Monarch, then...huh.

But yeah, it IS totally possible for the liason to be killed either en-route to your fort, or before even setting out. I had a world where the fort the liason lived at was attacked and he was killed during that. It took FOREVER before a new liason was appointed, so I had a few years of no liason.

[Loci]

my civ held no sites and had no living historical figures... what do you call dead?

Your civilization is not extinct. An extinct civilization:

a) has no sites
b) has no population
c) has no nobles (and will not appoint any)
d) provides no trade caravans
e) provides no immigrants beyond the two hard-coded waves


This is distinct from a "struggling" civilization, which:

a) has few or no sites
b) has some population
c) has and/or will appoint nobles (e.g. monarch)
d) provides trade caravans
e) provides immigrants, even if they must be generated from scratch


The game doesn't clearly distinguish between "extinct" and "struggling" civilizations on embark. Struggling civilizations end up playing just like normal civilizations (except for the early monarch), while truly extinct civilizations are markedly different. Calling a struggling civilization "dead" needlessly confuses the issue, and players have all sorts of anecdotes about their own "dead" civilizations which don't reflect a truly extinct civilization at all.

[vjek]

Do you have a save or worldgen, Loci, of a dead civ that sends no caravans and/or provides no immigrants beyond the two hard coded waves?  I haven't been able to create a world like that, so far.

[InsanityPrelude]

A couple times I've gotten the "Your civilization is dead or dying. Your dwarves may assume important positions." message on embark. What are the conditions for that? It's happened when that was the only dwarf civ in the world (small region) and I know I didn't turn the "require controllable civilization" option off.

From the sound of it, people sometimes get dead civs even without that message?