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[guessingo]

It looks like the big feature is taverns, poetry, and music. This looks like its more an atmospheric change to make DF feel like more of a real world, but doesn't really change gameplay alot. Is that correct?

[BoogieMan]

I may be wrong but I think it fixed army pathing to make sieges more likely to occur. But now your military won't reliably equip armor so it kind of shoved it a bit far in the opposite direction it was before.

[Ysyua]

I may be wrong but I think it fixed army pathing to make sieges more likely to occur. But now your military won't reliably equip armor so it kind of shoved it a bit far in the opposite direction it was before.

Armour fix is inbound. So I wouldn't count that as a real problem tbh. Treat .42 as it will likely be once bug fixing is done. With army pathing fixed,  .42 builds on all the things .40 set the stage for. I feel like a lot of the changes we see from now on are going to feel mind-numbingly insane.

Things are starting to coalesce in interesting ways. For example...

It looks like the big feature is taverns, poetry, and music. This looks like its more an atmospheric change to make DF feel like more of a real world, but doesn't really change gameplay alot. Is that correct?

It isn't just that there are taverns and poetry and music, it's that these features interact with everything that already exists in the game. Taverns are fun to build, but they're also required to make sure your dwarves don't go crazy from boredom because they have needs now. The music and poetry you hear in taverns isn't just tacked on either. It's created by actual historical figures with creative inclinations. The book system alone is something someone could write a postgrad thesis on.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

I, for one, would like to make said thesis. In fact, if I was the Walker in the Sand and Stones (xkcd), with infinite time and space, I would make a whole college just based around Dwarf Fortress.

[Ysyua]

I, for one, would like to make said thesis. In fact, if I was the Walker in the Sand and Stones (xkcd), with infinite time and space, I would make a whole college just based around Dwarf Fortress.

I've been able to write about Dwarf Fortress twice during my undergrad. I'm not sure how much I'll be able to mention it during my MA, here's hoping for the best though.

[CypherLH]

It looks like the big feature is taverns, poetry, and music. This looks like its more an atmospheric change to make DF feel like more of a real world, but doesn't really change gameplay alot. Is that correct?

I can only really speak to Adventure Mode since that is what I play lately...

-- NPC's seem generally a bit less cowardly now as compared to .40, which I assume comes from the revamped personality/needs system?

-- Depending on your play style, the new personality/needs stuff has a pretty big impact in Adventure Mode with much more dynamic conversation options, including the ability to argue with NPC's and change their minds about things, or have them change your adventurer's mind. As it exists now I'm pretty sure Dwarf Fortress Adventure Mode has the most dynamic, robust, NPC interactions of any game ever, and its all organic stuff and not scripted.

-- the new Taverns add a lot of atmosphere to Towns, and places to get into drunken brawls and use the new performance stuff, etc. So far Temples seems pretty much the same to me but maybe I'm just not noticing the difference

-- The performance stuff is mostly just silly fun and adds background atmosphere to Towns and such...but it does also open a whole new play style within Adventure Mode.

All in all its baby steps, but more important foundation stuff being laid down. Adventure Mode is now a few bug fixes and new features away from being something really incredible. The World Activation from .40 and the revamped Personality/Needs stuff in .42 are two MAJOR steps forward in the quest towards DF becoming a true Fantasy World Simulator.

[exdeath]

If I am not wrong this main idea behind this version is to add stuff needed for an future patch that is going to be created.
On this new patch, instead of magically picking dwarfs to start a dwarf mode, you will actually have dwarfs that decided to leave some some reason and you will be able to play with them (or wait to more dwarfs to do this and then play with the new ones.).

[Ysyua]

If I am not wrong this main idea behind this version is to add stuff needed for an future patch that is going to be created.
On this new patch, instead of magically picking dwarfs to start a dwarf mode, you will actually have dwarfs that decided to leave some some reason and you will be able to play with them (or wait to more dwarfs to do this and then play with the new ones.).

Close. Not quite a patch but another version. And that's looking two steps ahead. You're referring to start scenarios; those will be in the version after the next, which will feature non-player artifacts. Here's the dev page.

[Putnam]

It is not feasible to play the game as I have played it since 0.31.25, which is to say by ignoring any leisure and just focusing on keeping dwarves safe. Now, they need leisure or they won't be effective.

[therahedwig]

It really depends on what you mean by 'Flavour'. Is it flavour text like how Magic:The Gathering cards have them? No, but then, there's probably nothing that is flavour in that manner in dwarf fortress.(Outside of dwarven beardstyles)

But then, I think it's quite a dull way of playing any game if you're going to analyse things into 'flavour' & 'gameplay'.

That said, fortress guests and multi-racial forts do make for quite a bit of difference, even though we haven't quite found how deep this particular rabbit hole goes.

[Ysyua]

But then, I think it's quite a dull way of playing any game if you're going to analyse things into 'flavour' & 'gameplay'.

I don't know how far I would take this. Part of the reason I love Dwarf Fortress is for its particular flavour and its gameplay!

[therahedwig]

But then, I think it's quite a dull way of playing any game if you're going to analyse things into 'flavour' & 'gameplay'.

I don't know how far I would take this. Part of the reason I love Dwarf Fortress is for its particular flavour and its gameplay!

It's a bit peculiar. People who make games like to think of them as holistic, so the game has to be considered as a whole. Because if things don't interconnect somehow and do not contribute to the emergent experience of the player, they are wasting time, and time is precious, especially in game development.

People who play games tend to look at them reductionist. Whether or not something is going to give them an advantage or if they need to consider it.

Whenever I see a clash between the two I just feel so sorry for both sides. The developer didn't put in time so that the player can dismiss it, but at the same time the player has to prioritise between elements to actually decide on their strategy.

[Ysyua]

But then, I think it's quite a dull way of playing any game if you're going to analyse things into 'flavour' & 'gameplay'.

I don't know how far I would take this. Part of the reason I love Dwarf Fortress is for its particular flavour and its gameplay!

It's a bit peculiar. People who make games like to think of them as holistic, so the game has to be considered as a whole. Because if things don't interconnect somehow and do not contribute to the emergent experience of the player, they are wasting time, and time is precious, especially in game development.

People who play games tend to look at them reductionist. Whether or not something is going to give them an advantage or if they need to consider it.

Whenever I see a clash between the two I just feel so sorry for both sides. The developer didn't put in time so that the player can dismiss it, but at the same time the player has to prioritise between elements to actually decide on their strategy.

I don't know about this either. People who make games have to think about them as being composed of parts otherwise game development would look very weird. That's why there are animators, coders, modellers, etc. I'm sure they like to think of the experience of the game as a holistic thing, but even then they must recognize that the game is constituted by different elements. No one party is restricted to thinking of a game as either merely parts or simply a whole.

We could get into seriously fractional semantic territory with this, so if we're content to agree to disagree let's leave it there!

[therahedwig]

Well, I never said they could only see them as holistic :p Just like I never said players are incapable of seeing the game as holistic. That'd be a little elitist, no?

I am just saying that either part is more inclined to one strategy or the other depending on their position to the game.

[Ysyua]

Well, I never said they could only see them as holistic :p Just like I never said players are incapable of seeing the game as holistic. That'd be a little elitist, no?

I am just saying that either part is more inclined to one strategy or the other depending on their position to the game.

Fair fair!  I do see what you mean. I made the mistake of assuming you were speaking in the absolute in places.