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[mainiac]

That could be achieved with webcams right now and for a lot less money. VR would be entirely unnecessary.

Teaching people over webcams is awful and I would wish it on nobody.

And I dont really see the cost difference here.  Instead of giving the students an electronic device with a high resolution screen and a webcam, you have an electronic device with a high resolution screen, a webcam and a motion sensor.  How is that a lot less money?

[cochramd]

Teaching people over webcams is awful and I would wish it on nobody.

Can't be as bad as living in poverty because you're uneducated.

And I dont really see the cost difference here.  Instead of giving the students an electronic device with a high resolution screen and a webcam, you have an electronic device with a high resolution screen, a webcam and a motion sensor.  How is that a lot less money?

Well for one, you're giving every kid a motion sensor. Second, you're giving every kid a high resolution screen when you could get away with one big one per classroom and third there's cost of the virtual classroom the teacher and students all interact in.

[Frumple]

I can pretty much guarantee you most of those costs either already are, or will be in the relatively near future, less expensive than your standard bits of physical infrastructure.

[cochramd]

I can pretty much guarantee you most of those costs either already are, or will be in the relatively near future, less expensive than your standard bits of physical infrastructure.

Not contesting that, just saying that you can do it now with webcams for less money. I just don't see what advantage VR provides in this situation.

[mainiac]

Less money is a point I can be convinced of.  I just dont think it's a whole lot less money even by third world education standards.

[cochramd]

Less money is a point I can be convinced of.  I just dont think it's a whole lot less money even by third world education standards.

We're talking about people who struggle to pay for easy access to clean drinking water here. They buy cellphones because being able to call for help can be the difference between life and death. These are not people who can afford all the bells and whistles. They're not going to pay through the nose for VR when cheap webcams will do the job just as well.

[mainiac]

We're talking about people who struggle to pay for easy access to clean drinking water here.

Clean drinking water is actually really cheap in the developing world, they just are resistant to non traditional methods.  Everyone wants water systems, no one wants clorine.  Guess which one is way cheaper?  But it's not really weird that people act that way.  Here in the USA we kill ourselves with unhealthy food when we could easily cook healthy stuff.

[cochramd]

Clean drinking water is actually really cheap in the developing world, they just are resistant to non traditional methods.  Everyone wants water systems, no one wants clorine.  Guess which one is way cheaper?

That doesn't matter when the nearest source of any water is 4 hours away by foot and you're too poor to have it pumped to you or build your own well. Nor does it matter when your kids can't go to school because they have to spend 8 hours everyday retrieving this water and you can't even afford to buy them bicycles which would let them retrieve the water faster, thus giving them time for school.

I don't know who told you that living in the third world is like living in a first world ghetto, but I recommend you stop listening to them.

[mainiac]

I don't know who told you that living in the third world is like living in a first world ghetto, but I recommend you stop listening to them.

I'm not saying it is?

I think you are miss understand what I'm talking about here.  People in the ghettos are drinking from what in the developing world is called an improved water source.  The municipal authorities chlorinates their water for them.  They may not like the level of chlorine and it may taste bad but it's not going to give them e coli (most of the time).  More then a billion people in the world drink from unimproved water sources.  They are chlorinating their own water, or more accurately failing to do so up to 90% of the time.  As a result of this, diarrhea from tainted water is a massive, massive source of death.  There is even a cheap treatment for diarrhea that is readily available but generally a combination of bad clinics and mistrust of the bad clinics means people dont get treated.

The people in the bad parts of Africa, India, Bangledesh, etc. want to have the improved water sources.  The problem is that such systems can cost hundreds or even thousands of dollars a household.  Meanwhile there is a low cost treatment that can serve as a stop over until their water gets improved.  The most common form is a concentrate of chlorine that you put a few drops in your bucket of water and stir it lightly.  It costs about 10 cents a family a month.  It's readily available.  People aren't using it.  700,000 children under 5 died last year of diarrhea.  That number would be way lower if they were using these widely available treatments.

As we like to say in an exasperated tone from afar, the institutions are weak.  A cost effective solution exists.  But it's very difficult to use it.  Clinics have the same problem, they build the clinics and then more then half of the working day the clinic workers aren't there.  Schools have the problem, they build the schools and then the teachers dont teach.

Cell phones are exciting because they bypass the weak institutions.  The local bank might lie but the digital system doesn't.  VR is exciting because it could also bypass the weak institutions.  Buy the kid a VR set and you can track whether students and teachers are actually getting into the virtual classroom.  It's impossible to do in the real world but a breeze in VR.

[wierd]

We're talking about people who struggle to pay for easy access to clean drinking water here.

Clean drinking water is actually really cheap in the developing world, they just are resistant to non traditional methods.  Everyone wants water systems, no one wants clorine.  Guess which one is way cheaper?  But it's not really weird that people act that way.  Here in the USA we kill ourselves with unhealthy food when we could easily cook healthy stuff.

Part of the issue with that, is that the typical american household does not have much "quality time."  Cooking a good, wholesome and healthy meal requires an investiture of energy and care/concern. You have to WANT to cook the food, and WANT it to come out beautiful and delicious.

Typical american households these days have both parents working, they come home and have approx 2hrs of free time before they MUST be asleep, if they are going to get the necessary 8hrs to recuperate themselves.  This 2hr window is vied for heavily by everything from television marketers, to the kids asking for help with homework, to getting basic chores, like dishes and laundry done.

This leaves shit little time for proper food preparation, and is why the clearly inferior GARBAGE that you can get at the grocery store in a paper box is appealing. "Heat and eat! Ready to serve in under 20 minutes!"

This is mostly cultural.  In the US, there is a cultural stigma against telling your bosses, in no uncertain terms, that "Mandatory overtime" is "Fucked up, morally repugnant, and the only reason it is being done is to drive your bottom line because of your inept long term planning." (Mostly because doing that would result in your getting fired, and there being a steady stream of eager people who are willing to capitulate to the boss's desire for extra labor without hiring more hands, waiting in the wings to replace you at the drop of a hat.)

In countries where family time and quality of life of the human are more enshrined, that kind of shit does not happen, and culinary and cultural aesthetics flourish.

Places like France.

[cochramd]

I think you are miss understand what I'm talking about here.

No, it is you who misunderstands. There are towns with NO WATER SOURCES. When people in those towns need water, they don't turn on the taps, because they don't have water pumped into their homes. They don't go to the town well either, because they're too poor to build one. Instead, they walk for hours to another town that actually has a well, then spend hours hauling the water back. Don't tell me the problem is that people refuse to use cost-effective water treatment when plenty of people don't even have water to treat.

Cell phones are exciting because they bypass the weak institutions.  The local bank might lie but the digital system doesn't.  VR is exciting because it could also bypass the weak institutions.  Buy the kid a VR set and you can track whether students and teachers are actually getting into the virtual classroom.  It's impossible to do in the real world but a breeze in VR.

I could log into this hypothetical VR system, then take off the headset and bugger off all day, and the system would not know any better. VR would not bypass the weak institutions.

[mainiac]

No, it is you who misunderstands. There are towns with NO WATER SOURCES. When people in those towns need water, they don't turn on the taps, because they don't have water pumped into their homes.

[wierd]

Indeed.  Water is often pumped many many kilometers from natural (or artificial in some cases) bodies of water to service metropolitan areas in 1st world countries.

This civil infrastructure is what makes running water possible in most urban environments.

This infrastructure can exist either with or without chlorination based treatment facilities, which is what Mainiac was saying.

[cochramd]

Indeed.  Water is often pumped many many kilometers from natural (or artificial in some cases) bodies of water to service metropolitan areas in 1st world countries.

This civil infrastructure is what makes running water possible in most urban environments.

This infrastructure can exist either with or without chlorination based treatment facilities, which is what Mainiac was saying.

And in doing so missed the point entirely. If they can't afford the infrastructure necessary for running water or even a well of their own, then where are they going to find the money for a fancy VR system?

VR wouldn't even fix the attendance problem, because these kids aren't playing hooky for fun; they're busy collecting water, working the fields, tending to relatives, etc. The problem isn't that they're skipping school, it's that they have to skip school to ensure their family's survival.

[SirQuiamus]

"The peasants have no bread? Let them eat VR cake!"

EDIT: Reminds me of something that someone has actually said: "The poor people have no money to buy food? Let them drink Soylent!"