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Author Topic: Do you believe in ghosts?  (Read 2684 times)

Killitwithfire

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Do you believe in ghosts?
« on: December 01, 2015, 01:36:54 pm »
So, I decided to go play around with certain materials' temperature settings, trying to see if I could create a creature that would melt or evaporate after it died. I didn't quite succeed... the poor fella winked out of existence after he took his first step. The kicker, though? In spite of having no body of any kind to speak of, the guy still walked around like nothing was the matter. I tried [A]iming an attack at him... but because he had no parts, I couldn't pull it off. When I just walked into him and did the automatic attacks, however, my dwarf nailed him in the upper body and gave the standard "X has been struck down" message... though of course, he didn't leave a corpse.

Anyway, I tried again, and the result I got was the same, so I decided to NOT kill this one and attempted tal[k]ing instead. Surprisingly, the conversation went like it normally would, up to and including the disembodied voice commenting about the surroundings and weather. I'd even be willing to be he'd remember if he was attacked, and who attacked him.

...I think it's safe to say I might have made a ghost.  :-\

Fortunately, I've since fixed up the creature in question, so he doesn't do that anymore, unless someone tries to torch him. What he's been fixed into has some interesting properties, too... apparently being gaseous, nigh impossible to hit without a weapon ("you punch Ghost 1 in the right upper arm, but the attack goes through!"), and incredibly fragile if he IS hit (his torso shattered when I took a halberd to it... no, really, ribs EVERYWHERE). I've added [NOPAIN], [NO_EAT], [NO_DRINK], [NO_SLEEP] and [FLIER] tags, as well, to try to make it a bit more like your standard wraith-like affair, and to try to mitigate the fire problem, I added [FIREIMMUNE], too... no dice on that last one, but if anybody has any suggestions, feel free to let me know.

Creature information
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Tissue Information
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Material information
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Materials and Tissues
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« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 02:02:31 pm by Killitwithfire »
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Bearskie

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2015, 02:03:05 am »
Does he atttack though? It's quite possible to make an invulnerable 'pass through' creature, just ends up being rather unrealistic when he caves a miner's skull in with a punch.

The reason your creature behaves like that is because of this line in your tissue template:

Code: [Select]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:CLOUD_TEMPLATE]
Because you can't automatically reference a template as a material, it turns out not layering the creature with ANY tissues. So, yeah. Disembodied indeed. Proper layering would be you defining the ice in the creature first, [USE_MATERIAL_TEMPLATE:CLOUD:CLOUD_TEMPLATE], and then in the tissue template:

Code: [Select]
[TISSUE_MATERIAL:LOCAL_CREATURE_MAT:CLOUD]
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 02:07:42 am by Bearskie »
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Killitwithfire

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2015, 07:46:01 am »
Yeah, he can attack, but his unarmed strikes typically don't end any better than attacks aimed at him.

So, to summarize, what you're telling me is that I basically made a guy that was all skin, bone, eyes and teeth?
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Bearskie

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2015, 08:31:56 am »
No, you made a guy that was essentially nothing. Not even skin, bones and teeth.

This is because all your tissue templates use the CLOUD_TEMPLATE, which doesn't have its material defined properly.
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Killitwithfire

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2015, 09:13:07 am »
Huh. That might've been kind of cool, if I'd pulled it off intentionally.

Anyway, implemented those changes, but now these things fall apart at the drop of a hat. And apparently, EVERYTHING can hit them now, unarmed attacks included, so the end result is something that might as well just be a corpse to begin with.

So, if there's a way to make it essentially nothing (but a describable, equipment-using nothing) without being the result of screwed-up code... well, I'd be glad to hear it.
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Bearskie

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 09:34:50 am »
If you don't mind it being the way it was before, just define the body parts and don't bother defining the tissues I suppose? Equipment-using might be a stretch, never tried it before.

Hmm... or maybe try making the tissue shape to be FEATHERS instead of LAYER.
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Killitwithfire

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 09:50:18 am »
Well, that first one didn't quite work out, but I just changed the material to NONE (since, you know, that's kinda what the goal is), and I got results pretty similar to before, with a few exceptions (such as the game now saying that the corpses weight less than one... whatever that unit is. I'd have to say that's pretty accurate.  :P) Hilariously, despite being nothing, hitting a ghost with a weapon of some kind still draws blood. (Well, water, but you get the idea.)

...You know, a question that's kinda been passed up until now... how the [CURSE] is it that weapons can still hit these guys? No tissue, no contact area. Unarmed attacks missing makes sense, obviously, but weapons apparently change the dynamics.
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miauw62

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 11:50:26 am »
If you still want evaporating creatures, I might have something to point you in the right direction?

I once modded giant desert scorpion poison to be boiling blood with [ENTERS_BLOOD]. Creatures injected with the gold-poison-thing would evaporate after they died.
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Killitwithfire

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 12:04:31 pm »
Quote from: miauw62 on December 02, 2015, 11:50:26 am
If you still want evaporating creatures, I might have something to point you in the right direction?

I once modded giant desert scorpion poison to be boiling blood with [ENTERS_BLOOD]. Creatures injected with the gold-poison-thing would evaporate after they died.

It made them "melt" while they were alive, too, right? Because if so, then what you'd end up with if you made a creature with boiling blood is something with a very short life expectancy.

...In fairness, you generally end up with that anyway, but I'd rather have a monster you can't plunder (because there's nothing left) to an ineffectual suicide bomber.

That being said, Imma go play with the scorpions.  :P
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IndigoFenix

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 03:55:56 pm »
Actually, this is much easier than you think:

Give the creature an ITEMCORPSE which is a boulder (or anything, really) made out of a custom material that evaporates below room temperature.  The creature will turn into the item and immediately vanish.

Chopped off limbs will still remain.  If this is a problem, try the following: make the creature out of a solid material that evaporates at below room temperature, and give the creature (not the material) a FIXED_TEMP below this.  Any dead parts should evaporate immediately.  This isn't perfect, as I recall, because temperature might not update properly, but they should vanish if you try to pick them up or butcher them.
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King_of_Baboons

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 05:07:24 pm »
Looking forward to this because I want some Return of the King look-a-like ghosts so I can make a civ out of them  ;D
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A medium-sized creature prone to madness and insanity.

Killitwithfire

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 05:22:25 pm »
Quote from: King_of_Baboons on December 02, 2015, 05:07:24 pm
Looking forward to this because I want some Return of the King look-a-like ghosts so I can make a civ out of them  ;D

One step ahead of ya.  ;D

I originally wanted this to be a civ populated by Icelings (you know, the melt-y guys), so I've already got a starting ground for you if you want it. And yes, a lot of the ghosts' behaviors are completely stable now, barring the whole "burn-them-and-leave-behind-their-soul" thing. Unless you intend to pit them against dragons or something like that, though, I doubt you'll have a problem.

Updated Creature:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Relevant Tissues
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tissue Detail Plans
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Civ (Currently just the Elves with Dwarven settling preferences... originally, that was so they'd end up in relatively cold climates, but given where you'd want them, it still fits.)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 05:33:27 pm »
I don't know if this is possible in the new version, but in 40.24, at least, you can make an interaction-cum-syndrome that transforms corpses into other creatures. That might work a treat, as far these guys are concerned.
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Quote from: Dwarf4Explosives on May 05, 2016, 11:51:47 am
"Hey papa, your dandruff is melting my skin. Is that normal?"
"SKREEEONK!!!"
"Yes, daddy."

Killitwithfire

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 05:46:43 pm »
Quote from: Urlance Woolsbane on December 02, 2015, 05:33:27 pm
I don't know if this is possible in the new version, but in 40.24, at least, you can make an interaction-cum-syndrome that transforms corpses into other creatures. That might work a treat, as far these guys are concerned.

Do you happen to have code/tags/whatever for that? I imagine giving another creature the ability to make corpses into ghosts would be absolutely terrifying.
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Urlance Woolsbane

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Re: Do you believe in ghosts?
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2015, 06:27:47 pm »
Quote from: Killitwithfire on December 02, 2015, 05:46:43 pm
Quote from: Urlance Woolsbane on December 02, 2015, 05:33:27 pm
I don't know if this is possible in the new version, but in 40.24, at least, you can make an interaction-cum-syndrome that transforms corpses into other creatures. That might work a treat, as far these guys are concerned.

Do you happen to have code/tags/whatever for that? I imagine giving another creature the ability to make corpses into ghosts would be absolutely terrifying.
Here you go!
Code: [Select]
[INTERACTION:MAKEGHOST]

[I_TARGET:A:CORPSE]
[IT_LOCATION:CONTEXT_ITEM]
[IT_AFFECTED_CLASS:GENERAL_POISON]
[IT_REQUIRES:FIT_FOR_ANIMATION]
[IT_FORBIDDEN:NOT_LIVING]
[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:corpses]
[I_EFFECT:ANIMATE]
[IE_TARGET:A]
[IE_IMMEDIATE]
[SYNDROME]
[CE_ADD_TAG:NO_AGING]
[CE_BODY_TRANSFORMATION:START:0]
[CE:CREATURE:ICELING:DEFAULT]
You'll need to make the ghosts genderless, by the way. Also, since raising a corpse creates a new creature, each one will identify as "Urist McCadaver's Corpse," despite being spectres.

I tested, and confirmed that it works in the new version.
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Quote from: Dwarf4Explosives on May 05, 2016, 11:51:47 am
"Hey papa, your dandruff is melting my skin. Is that normal?"
"SKREEEONK!!!"
"Yes, daddy."
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