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[Azerty]

While code-diving, I found the following snippet, contained in dev\lawrefrence.cpp:

Code: [Select]

case LAW_RELIGION:
S: "Religion is illegal, but Stalinist Party membership is mandatory."
C++: "The world derisively refers to the country as \"Jesusland\"."
C+: "Encouraging religious faith is a major goal of public policy."
C: "Public schools include organized prayer and study of creation beliefs."
M: "Religious charities and private schools may compete for public funding."
L: "Government is prohibited from supporting religious organizations."
L+: "Purely faith-based viewpoints are irrelevant to public policy."
L++: "Although religion is legal, it is considered absurd and has no followers."
While there is Priests and Nuns, and that the Terra Vitae mod added to these Shamans, along with magical powers depending from the Religious Liberties law and Churches sieges, religion is not very noticeable.

So, I propose the following additions:

New locations :

A Megachurch - name randomly generated from features related to God - should be available, staffed with a Fundamentalist Pastor and his armed Deacons; nearly all the congregants would be Conservative. There would be stuff to steal, along wih a safe with more cash and documents (ledger, confessions, reports) where could be reports about the pastor committing the infamous crime against nature with prostitutes from both genders or embezzlement from the orphans' ministry; mite boxes could equally be robbed for their money; lastly, the pulpit could be hijacked for an impromptu preach, similar to the AM Radio and the TV.

A Catholic Church - name randomly generated from famous saints -, for Moderates, where Priests and Nuns could be found; alternatively, with the Multiple Cities mod, a Methodist Chapel or Baptist Church could be set instead, with Pastors and their Deacons.

An Unitarian Universalist Church/Quaker Meetinghouse - name randomly generated -, where could be found higher scale Liberals, such as Lawyers, Liberal Judges and Journalists.

At C++, only the Megachurch remains open.

New upgrade :

A Chapel could be available, where a Liberal with enough good Religion and Persuasion could minister to his pew and gather offerings.
The effect would be heightened on Sundays, where the Liberal with the most Religion could deliver a preach on a subject.

New criminal charges :

At C+ Religion, the following charges would exist, all capital:

• Schism : Any Liberal who preach in the Chapel of a Safehouse, similar to sedition
• Sacrilege : Any larceny in a church
• Heresy : Any preaching from the Megachurch's pulpit
• Blasphemy : Disturbing traditionnal marriage ceremonies; alternatively, any preaching gone bad at the Megachurch - at other than C+, such preaching could be "disturbing the peace"

Finally, I would change the L++ description from the original to "Religion is totally separated from politics."

[SlatersQuest]

Hmmm... while I approve of the idea of making religion have a more noticeable role, I think that some of these elements are kinda redundant. The TV mod has a church location, and secret church documents that you can swipe and publish in the Liberal Guardian.


I am leery of adding specific religions here, also. There are just too many of them to be able to do them all justice. The Terra Vitae mod basically divides all religions into three categories - conservative (bible-thumper Christians and money-grubbing Jews), Amerindian (the shamans and potentially the titular organization Terra Vitae itself, depending on your definition), and liberal (everybody else, including many other Christians and Jews who are simply more tolerant/less greedy). Adding specific branches of Christianity as you do here not only raises questions of which named Christian denominations are the good guys (in TV, it's how the religion is practiced, not the name of the faith, but you make the Quakers good guys); it also leaves some gaping holes. Where are the Muslims? The Hindus? The Confucians? Where do they stand on the scale of liberal-conservative? This becomes especially problematic when you consider that these non-Christian religions have their own divisions and sects, and some of them (e.g. militant Islam) are just as much the enemies of the fascist conservatives as they are against the liberals (and, to top it off, they'd be enemies of the Stalinists as well)!

I do approve of a fictional church that will (should the Arch-Conservative amendment be passed) anoint Ronald Reagan as their King and Savior. This church, however, should be more or less conspicuous depending on public opinion and religious freedom (and possibly also corporate) laws. The Holy Church of Reaganism might get replaced with a more traditional, less fascist church, for example, when the laws are less popular. However, this would be more a name change of an existing site rather than a new location (at least in TV - in regular LCS there is no church location yet). It would be similar to the way that the Intelligence HQ becomes the Ministry of Love at C+ privacy laws, or the Courthouse becomes the Hall of Ultimate Judgement when the death penalty is C+.

[Azerty]

I am leery of adding specific religions here, also. There are just too many of them to be able to do them all justice. The Terra Vitae mod basically divides all religions into three categories - conservative (bible-thumper Christians and money-grubbing Jews), Amerindian (the shamans and potentially the titular organization Terra Vitae itself, depending on your definition), and liberal (everybody else, including many other Christians and Jews who are simply more tolerant/less greedy). Adding specific branches of Christianity as you do here not only raises questions of which named Christian denominations are the good guys (in TV, it's how the religion is practiced, not the name of the faith, but you make the Quakers good guys); it also leaves some gaping holes. Where are the Muslims? The Hindus? The Confucians? Where do they stand on the scale of liberal-conservative? This becomes especially problematic when you consider that these non-Christian religions have their own divisions and sects, and some of them (e.g. militant Islam) are just as much the enemies of the fascist conservatives as they are against the liberals (and, to top it off, they'd be enemies of the Stalinists as well)!

I just tried to conceive a generic church location for moderates - here, any mainstream reigious person -, and I wanted to randomly name it from mainstream denominations.

I also wanted to create a Liberal-oriented church, in the same mold than Quakers and UU, where Liberals could meet higher-ranking Liberals.

I do approve of a fictional church that will (should the Arch-Conservative amendment be passed) anoint Ronald Reagan as their King and Savior. This church, however, should be more or less conspicuous depending on public opinion and religious freedom (and possibly also corporate) laws. The Holy Church of Reaganism might get replaced with a more traditional, less fascist church, for example, when the laws are less popular. However, this would be more a name change of an existing site rather than a new location (at least in TV - in regular LCS there is no church location yet). It would be similar to the way that the Intelligence HQ becomes the Ministry of Love at C+ privacy laws, or the Courthouse becomes the Hall of Ultimate Judgement when the death penalty is C+.

I could see the Holy Church of Reaganism with firethrower-armed Crusaders, akin to Death Squads, bent to burning alive heretics and blasphemers; they could also made raids against the enemies of God.

[SlatersQuest]

I think that the church should be more-or-less like the media stations: run by conservatives, but staffed by whatever alignment people happen to be.

Honestly there are lots of locations that aren't visitable in LCS because the LCS has no reason to visit them. There are some places where the LCS can recruit/train people, but most of the locations are sites of conservative wrongdoing. Sure, there are and should be religious institutions that are moderate or liberal-aligned, but should we go to the work of putting them in the game?

[Lavandula]

That's nice idea.
Offending Church on M, C and C+ could cause better prosecution in court - I don't know about other countries, but Russian Orthodox Church takes very long roads to win cases even against smallest offenses. Also, Churches probably should have lower security, but raising an alarm in one might cause angry mob raid or actually make people more conservative about it.

L+: "Purely faith-based viewpoints are irrelevant to public policy."
L++: "Although religion is legal, it is considered absurd and has no followers."

Also, I think radical Liberal agenda would have better synergy with western Buddhism rather than Christianity: faith in Buddhism is usually seen as mental poison, totalitarian God figure is absent, believing in supernatural is optional, and some practicioners don't even consider it to be a religion at all.

Here are some extra additions:
(Travel) Buddhist retreat/Zen temple - can raise visitor's heart and lower wisdom, but requires a week, and required time increases after each visit. Trains meditation. Can't be raided by LCS.
Meditation skill (Heart) - gives chance to resist juice-draining attacks, affects combat skills, interrogation and threatening.
Witchcraft charge - may be given for visiting retreat at C+.
Insult of religious feelings charge - replaces the following: loitering if playing music in church, disturbing the peace if addressing religious issues on radio or TV, vandalism if artist makes mural about religion, vandalism in church. C and C+.

[SlatersQuest]

I don't presently have meditation, although I might use it in the future. There is a Magic skill in the TV mod, and having it in C+ religious rights laws is witchcraft.

[Neonivek]

L++: "Although religion is legal, it is considered absurd and has no followers."

Say what you will about the idea altogether... But this here kind of says a lot about not QUITE understanding how the game works.

Remember that the game was made by a CRAZY Liberal with 0-self awareness. So the L++ should be more that Churches should be taxed and held responsible for their followers leading to the Church location to be closed down.

also each step into C should allow the Church more and more influence in politics. So.. for example

-C: A permanent member of the supreme court or politics hired by the Church
-C+: an Inquisitional unit joins sieges.
-C++: Either a church appointed president... OR only Church candidates can be sworn in.

Also... the further into C territory the more demons, elves, werewolves, and vampires there should be (Rare mind you)... to represent how superstitious America is becoming... You can recruit them, and if you get back to normalcy they should turn back into ordinary people.

[zaimoni]

Ah...but which churches....

Restricting attention to "sufficiently Christian denominations", we have to keep in mind that L++ would actively suppress e.g. Mormons, Southern Baptists, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, 7th Day Adventists, and The Continuing Anglicans, while C++ would actively suppress e.g. Episcopalians, Christian Science, Unitarians, Quakers.  (Yes, Anglicanism has that extreme an internal divergence.  I haven't listed all denominations originating in the early 1970's that C++ would actively suppress because they're fundamentally L++)

L++ suppresses all denominations that have had their doctrine felonized.  C++ suppresses any denominations whose doctrines have been felonized, as well as those that prioritize the homeless or otherwise critically poor, mysticism, or faith healing.  Any denomination suppressed at L++ could be the para-state religion at C++, but they don't mix (e.g. Southern Baptists would suppress Roman Catholics at C++, and Roman Catholics would suppress Southern Baptists at C++)

I'm including some typically hyper-heterodox denominations in the above listings.  The current LCS laws do not handle Stalinism, and only consider denominations that are suppressed at L++.

Also, Stalinism suppresses all denominations -- they don't close the churches, but they do imprison all believers and install politician-pastors to replace every pastor they imprisoned.