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[Il Palazzo]

After months of trying, Hezbollah got a successful strike... that killed 10 Israeli (Druze to be more precise) children with many more wounded and in critical condition

I expect either massive airstrikes or an invasion of the Israeli army in Southern Lebanon within a week or two

Yeah, the Druze are one of those subjects nobody really likes talking about - like that, if Israel gave the Golan Heights back, the Druze there would most likely get massacred.

The Druze in Israel are its citizens, no? Why would they be massacred? I don't get this take.

[Maximum Spin]

The Druze in Israel are its citizens, no? Why would they be massacred? I don't get this take.

The Golan Heights are "officially" part of Syria, considered occupied by Israel. The Druze community in the Golan Heights survives because Israel controls the area and not Syria.

[hector13]

Aren’t there quite a few Druze in Syria?

[Maximum Spin]

Aren’t there quite a few Druze in Syria?

There were before the civil war but there have been a few massacres since. I don't have any data on how much damage has been done - it's probably not a total genocide situation or anything, don't get me wrong. Just that it wouldn't be good for them.

[Strongpoint]

Living in a war-devasted and totalitarian Syria instead of a prosperous democratic Israel isn't good even if there will be no terror. And terror will come because it is what totalitarian regimes do when they integrate new territories, especially ones received from ideological enemies.

[feelotraveller]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze

After Israel captured the Golan Heights from Syria in 1967 and annexed it to Israel in 1981, the Druze of the Golan Heights were offered full Israeli citizenship under the Golan Heights Law. Most declined Israeli citizenship and retain Syrian citizenship and identity and are treated as permanent residents of Israel. As of 2011, fewer than 10% of the Druze population in the Golan Heights had accepted Israeli citizenship.

Somehow facts and the opinions of a couple of people here rarely seem to meet up.

[Il Palazzo]

Where's that dig coming from, man?

[Strongpoint]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Druze

After Israel captured the Golan Heights from Syria in 1967 and annexed it to Israel in 1981, the Druze of the Golan Heights were offered full Israeli citizenship under the Golan Heights Law. Most declined Israeli citizenship and retain Syrian citizenship and identity and are treated as permanent residents of Israel. As of 2011, fewer than 10% of the Druze population in the Golan Heights had accepted Israeli citizenship.

Somehow facts and the opinions of a couple of people here rarely seem to meet up.

So, just because Druze of Golan Heights are not too loyal to Israel it means that it is better to live in a war-devastated Syria under Assad's rule than in Israel? Are you claiming that it is the other way around? Do you claim that the Druze community of Golan Heights would be better off if Israel withdrew tomorrow and Assad's army move in instead?

What facts don't meet with what expressed opinions?

[feelotraveller]

It is clear that the Druze community if Golan Heights believe that their best interests reside with Syria.  They are not scared of terror eventuating if Israel ends it's illegal occupation.

And terror will come because it is what totalitarian regimes do when they integrate new territories, especially ones received from ideological enemies.

Where's that dig coming from, man?

Mainly in response to:

The Druze community in the Golan Heights survives because Israel controls the area and not Syria.

I have sufficient faith in people not wishing for their own extermination, and believe that the Druze of Golan Heights are in a much better position to make that assessment than any of us here are.  If they really were afraid of mass extermination on condition of return of control of the Golan Heights to Syria, its legal owners, then the first thing they would be doing is signing up in droves for Israeli citizenship, something that even half a century later very few are willling to do.

In fact the offer of Israeli citizenship must be seen for what it is: a failed attempt at legitimising the occupation on the part of Israel.

[Strongpoint]

It is clear that the Druze community if Golan Heights believe that their best interests reside with Syria.  They are not scared of terror eventuating if Israel ends it's illegal occupation.

1) Druze community believing something doesn't make it true. The pro-Russian part of the population of the Donbass region didn't expect Russian terror but they got it.
2) It is not clear at all that they believe this ATM. For that, you need polls. Citizenship data from 2011 (before the Syrian war) is not the best indicator. October 7's attack alone changed a lot in the self-identification of non-Jew citizens and residents of Israel.
3) Maximum Spin, did exaggerate making assumptions without looking into it. Druzes of Syria are mostly neutral pro-Assad in the civil war and didn't face major problems like ethnicities that were anti-Assad. Druzes of Golan Heights wouldn't get massacred for being Druze. But they would be terrorized as unreliable because it is what regimes like Assad's do. The aforementioned citizens of Israel would have an especially fun time.

In fact the offer of Israeli citizenship must be seen for what it is: a failed attempt at legitimising the occupation on the part of Israel.

Amateurs. 50 years of brutal oppression and they forced only 10%... Russia is far more... persuasive in making people take their citizenship.

Also: Don't offer citizenship = Apparteid and ethnostate. Offer citizenship = Legitimization of occupation. Whatever Israel does, it is evil.

[feelotraveller]

Also: Don't offer citizenship = Apparteid and ethnostate. Offer citizenship = Legitimization of occupation. Whatever Israel does, it is evil.

You've forgotten the option every nation in the world wants (apart from Israel and to some degree the US) - give the land back to its rightful owner Syria.  That would be Israel not being evil.

[Maximum Spin]

Mainly in response to:

The Druze community in the Golan Heights survives because Israel controls the area and not Syria.

I never said the Druze community are loyal to Israel at all. They mostly seem to be holding out for their own state. But as the Druze community in Syria only earlier this year engaged in protests against the Syrian government, which were brutally repressed, and then Druze groups elsewhere condemned that repression, I don't think your assumptions about what the Druze believe are founded.

[Strongpoint]

You've forgotten the option every nation in the world wants (apart from Israel and to some degree the US) - give the land back to its rightful owner Syria.  That would be Israel not being evil.

It is irrelevant if what you care about is the wellbeing of people.

Druzes will have a far better life in Israel than in Syria. Jews living in Golan Heights won't have to flee. Israelis will be far safer without Syrian control over strategically important heights. If Israel does what "the world wants*" the world will become worse, and people will suffer. But yeah, the all IMPORTANT international law will be satisfied and EVIL Israel will be punished. It is all that matters, right? Some sufferings of people are an acceptable price for achieving this honorable goal of ending the horrible illegal occupation.

* I'll tell you a secret. Diplomacy is somewhat complicated. Sometimes, the official position of a country doesn't match what they (or their population) actually want.

[Rockeater]

You've forgotten the option every nation in the world wants (apart from Israel and to some degree the US) - give the land back to its rightful owner Syria.  That would be Israel not being evil.

It is irrelevant if what you care about is the wellbeing of people.

Druzes will have a far better life in Israel than in Syria. Jews living in Golan Heights won't have to flee. Israelis will be far safer without Syrian control over strategically important heights. If Israel does what "the world wants*" the world will become worse, and people will suffer. But yeah, the all IMPORTANT international law will be satisfied and EVIL Israel will be punished. It is all that matters, right? Some sufferings of people are an acceptable price for achieving this honorable goal of ending the horrible illegal occupation.

* I'll tell you a secret. Diplomacy is somewhat complicated. Sometimes, the official position of a country doesn't match what they (or their population) actually want.

I agree that Syria is not a safe country now, but it is not a good excuse to legitimize occupation.

Also, it is interesting you are bothered by Israelis being forced to flee if it is returned and not for the Arabs who fled from the occupation being able to return to their homes, what you think about the Russians who went to Donbass  and will probably flee if Ukraine gain this land back?

[Maximum Spin]

You've forgotten the option every nation in the world wants (apart from Israel and to some degree the US) - give the land back to its rightful owner Syria.  That would be Israel not being evil.

Syria should be partitioned.