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[Deboche]

That other thread about zoos made me think that it'd be pretty cool if dwarves could marvel at vistas rather than separate objects or rooms.

You can create a beautiful statue garden with ponds, benches, maybe even plants or mushrooms and it'd be the same, good thoughts wise, as a 9 tile statue garden with an artifact statue in it.

Similarly, you could make an actual zoo with carefully worked environments for the animals which the dwarves can look at through glass or aquariums or windows looking into the caverns and none of this would register.

I realize coding this would be a nightmare because coming up with the criteria for beauty on a large scale and have it check each dwarf's line of sight constantly would greatly lower FPS. But when has that ever deterred Toady?

Alternatively, you could define scenery appreciation zones for that line of sight problem.

[GoblinCookie]

I realize coding this would be a nightmare because coming up with the criteria for beauty on a large scale and have it check each dwarf's line of sight constantly would greatly lower FPS. But when has that ever deterred Toady?

Toady has a finite number of hours in his life....... My hard drive also has a finite amount of memory.............. 

[SixOfSpades]

It would be much simpler to allow the player to "build" vistas, which have no material components & can exist anywhere. All of the line-of-sight calculations need only be performed at the time of construction, and saved as the "value" of the vista, so that dwarves standing on/next to that tile will appreciate it just like standing on/next to an expensive piece of furniture.

You would need to be able to manually go back and "refresh" vistas, however, to take into account changes in the view that may have occurred since the vista's original designation. Also, vistas would have to store at least two values: One for natural sights like mushrooms & waterfalls, & the other for gold-plated throne rooms, to account for dwarves who do / do not appreciate natural beauty.

[4maskedwolf]

It would be much simpler to allow the player to "build" vistas, which have no material components & can exist anywhere. All of the line-of-sight calculations need only be performed at the time of construction, and saved as the "value" of the vista, so that dwarves standing on/next to that tile will appreciate it just like standing on/next to an expensive piece of furniture.

You would need to be able to manually go back and "refresh" vistas, however, to take into account changes in the view that may have occurred since the vista's original designation. Also, vistas would have to store at least two values: One for natural sights like mushrooms & waterfalls, & the other for gold-plated throne rooms, to account for dwarves who do / do not appreciate natural beauty.

Manually refreshing could be horribly abused by the player, however, because they could build a vista and then completely wall it off but still have it provide that view.

[SixOfSpades]

Manually refreshing could be horribly abused by the player, however, because they could build a vista and then completely wall it off but still have it provide that view.

As long as walls made of clear glass are treated as opaque, I have little problem with this. But maybe vistas could auto-update annually, if you're concerned about abuse. I wouldn't be, as walling off a vista seems a lot more work than simply placing some artifact furniture, which you probably have tons of anyway.

[Adrian]

Don't statue gardens already have value as a room?
Like dining rooms and studies etc. i mean.

[Deboche]

Adrian, I think they do but statue gardens were just an example. What I mean is that vistas would not be calculated based on the value of the objects inside them, rather on the beauty of the arrangement, like a landscape.

SixOfSpades, having it update once a year would make sense I guess. That would take care of the FPS problem.

There's still the issue of how to recognize beauty in something you're looking at. There could be criteria such as:

Symmetry
Composition
Natural vs Dwarf made
Regional vs Exotic
and so on together with a list of specific things in that particular vista(trees, thrones, gold, etc) which would be matched with each dwarf's particular tastes.

Come to think of it, it does sound like a lot of work with not much practical benefit. It just seems weird to dedicate so much of your time beautifying your fortress with more than 1 z-level rooms, statues in specific arrangements, ponds, fountains and so on only to have dwarves not notice it. Also, the inside of the caverns - especially when you first break into them - is probably a beautiful landscape that they also don't notice.

[Bumber]

Dwarves tend to find nature somewhat disturbing.

[Deboche]

Even so. As I think most of us do here, I'm thinking about Moria. Those ginourmous halls with columns and ramps and architectural beauty would go completely unnoticed by our dwarves who think a 10x10 1-z high dining room with 10 rock tables and chairs is legendary.