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No

9 (37.5%)

Yes

15 (62.5%)

Total Members Voted: 23

[Sheb]

Scriver, seriously, the CDU ain't racist, or even that conservative.

[scriver]

And neither is the Sweden Democrats. Totes honestly! It says so in their statutes! That definitely means it's so.

In actual news: Sweden might be facing re-election soon. Background stuff: After last election no coalition got a majority in the Realmsday, so the "December Agreement" (or Decemberöverenskommelsen in Swedish, shortened DÖ, which is the swedish word for DIE, to the delight of all critics) between the right and left wing. It essentially boiled down to that the right wing would support the left wing's government proposition in order to keep the Sweden Democrats from having any balance-of-power authority over the situation.

Well, to a lot of the right wing coalition, this was basically throwing in the carpet, and they've been complaining about it ever since. Now not long ago the far moralist right wing of the Christ Democrats gained leadership in that party, and just the other day they voted for cancelling the DÖ. The right wing coalition heavyweight "the Moderates" are about to have their Big Part Politics Deciding Thing soon as well, and if the outcome of the CD vote influences them enough, they might vote to cancel it as well, which would basically mean it was game over, and the government will no longer have the confidence of the Realmsday, and thus possible re-election.

The funny thing is, the CD have been balancing between 3-5% of the popular vote for a decade or so by now (they need 4% to get into the Realmsday), basically only surviving on support votes from wily Moderates and the fact that their party has been lead by the "social conservative" wing rather than the "moralist" wing. It would be hilarious if this re-election was the drop that finally pushed them out of the Realmsday after they had been the one of the first to cause it in the first place.

[SirQuiamus]

I thought you sorta' agreed with the Sweden Democrats on certain issues, like, you know, immigration?

If you consider SD irredeemably racist (and that's what they totally are, no fucking question) d'you mean you're waiting for the non-racist mainstream parties to adjust their own immigration policies in the 'realistic' direction? That might take a while because racists have thoroughly poisoned the well of 'immigration criticism,' as we've seen in pol-threads on B12.

[scriver]

Only in extremely generalised terms, such as for example "there should be less immigration that there currently is", that says nothing about how or why or anything. I would never vote for the Sweden Democrats, even if they remain the only party with reduced immigration in their platform. You don't invite the wolves because there's foxes in the yard.

[SirQuiamus]

I wonder what would have happened if the other parties had admitted the SD into the coalition without DÖing them hard? Sure, it would be nasty having armband-wearing kooks in the government, but as long as they don't stage a coup, they're not going to stay there for long...

Look at the True Finns' recent victory, for example: On the condition that they got into the government, they promised their voters to stop all immigration, close the borders, feed the poor, provide jobs and circuses etc. etc. ad inf, and so far they have done pretty much the exact opposite, because they do not have magical powers. Of course, their support rates have taken a spectacular nose-dive because they couldn't pull off the impossible, and the whole party seems ready to implode due to internal conflict between the wingnut faction and the rest. Angry ex-voters are accosting their MPs in the street, and social media is overflowing with accusations that are not unlike the "cuckservative" memes in America.

I'm not clairvoyant, but one probable scenario is that TF will soon split into a far-right conservative party and an extreme-right wingnut party, both of whom will be too small to have any actual sway in the parliament – and that, I think, would be a pretty optimal outcome. Don't you think it would be worth the risk to let the Sweden Democrats do themselves in, democratically, in the same way?

[scriver]

Maybe. It's what happened in the 90's with the New Democracy party, so it's not like there's not a history of that happening. Unrelated but related note: This little piggy, one of the founders of New Democracy, is now one of the many "entrepreneurs" that rake home the government grants for anchovyzing immigrants.

It should also be noted that ND is currently going through a bit of a split of their own... With their own youth organisation. Apparently them youngsters don't clean up well enough when the pressure is on, too many strings to outspoken nazi and racist groups.

I also suspect that a lot of SD's votes are coming from people who don't particularly believe in SD's politics, but vote for them anyway as they are the only ones who oppose the current immigration policies in any way or shape (although other right wing parties like the Christ Democrats has begun to flirt with those opinions as well, but nothing concrete yet). Letting them appear as anything else than opposition could very likely lead to these people turning away from SD again.

[Sheb]

So, there has been that massive bombing attack in Ankara, killing at least 95 people at a pro-peace demonstration called by the coalitions of parties centered around the HDP. It is not clear who is to blame, the government blaming it on ISIS, while demonstrators tends to blame the government or nationalists turks.

[Bouchart]

Blame Sultan Erdogan.

[Helgoland]

Death count is over one hundred by now. A fairly apolitical friend asked me about it today - I take that as a worrying sign. It's front-page news here, which is unsurprising given the sheer amount of Turkish folks in Germany.


E: What do the Muslim organizations in Germany do for the refugees? Not much. What do the Muslims themselves do? Quite a lot, actually. Link in German.

[miljan]

Protesters throw petrol bombs at water cannons, clash with police after Ankara blasts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JryDtNomyeQ

[scrdest]

Protesters throw petrol bombs at water cannons

That seems... counter-intuitive as far as ways to disable water cannons go. I know it floats, but still...

[Sheb]

Nah, it's pretty effective. At least the one we have here in Belgium have some kind of big in fan to cool the inside/bring air to compress the water. If you manage to throw a molotov on there, it's pretty much an instant kill.

[martinuzz]

It is rumoured that quite a few of the casualties in Ankara could have been saved if the police had not started spraying tear gas and water cannons on the people who tried to provide first aid

[martinuzz]

Protesters throw petrol bombs at water cannons

That seems... counter-intuitive as far as ways to disable water cannons go. I know it floats, but still...

Have you ever tried throwing water into a pan with burning oil to try and put out the flames? (Hint: DON'T)
(the pressure from water turning into vapour will spread the flames in a big ball of fire)

EDIT: oops sorry was supposed to be an edit not a double post

[Reelya]

It is rumoured that quite a few of the casualties in Ankara could have been saved if the police had not started spraying tear gas and water cannons on the people who tried to provide first aid

That kind of stuff definitely raises suspicions when you have a rally against some nationalist movement, then there's an attack, and the cops actually get in the way of helping people. I have a friend at college here who's from Turkey and he's mentioned quite a few times what a fascist the current president is. If he was in Turkey, he could get arrested for even saying what he told me (people have been arrested for criticizing the president on Twitter or Facebook).

Going off stuff like that, it sounds plausible that the police/government are using the attacks as a cover to crack down on protesters.