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[BlueNovaJinx]

About a year ago I was watching a documentary about how some group of people (maybe Vikings?) may have used the ashes of deceased warriors as the source of carbon to make some of their steel weapons. So the first thing that comes to my mind, of course, is Dwarf Fortress. How cool would it be if a Dwarven brother having been struck down by a goblin, has his brother swear to avenge him. Said brother uses the ashes from the cremated corpse to make a sword and ventures forth to avenge him? Knowing Dwarf fortress though, that brother falls off a cliff, the next sister drowns, etc until some twelve year old with a full set of ancestral armor plus the solemn steel mug crafted from the ashes of his grandfather, Urist the Drunk.

Anyway most of the ancestral steel can be seen as roleplaying, but the mechanics to just craft the items seem like relatively low hanging fruit. I think it is possible right now to add in a smelter reaction to turn a Dwarven Corpse into coal. The real trick would be having relatives respect the weapon. Technically all entities could see it as semi-artifact weapon without any problems I guess, but that would be more for Toady to decide the specifics on.

Regardless I love the idea of legacy weapons/armor/items and I think it would provide a great incentive for players to keep going even after "fun" hits half the fort. I know I've straight rolled back to an earlier save when my legendary weapon smith got caught out by a goblin raid. I think it would also give the Dwarves something special to set them apart from the other species culturally. The downside would be players intentionally murdering immigrants to exploit the mechanic. As I mentioned, I've spent a lot of time mulling the idea over before pitching it here. There are buckets of opportunities for story telling, and start scenarios, but again there could be exploits as well.

[Dirst]

I like the idea, though I also worry about the mechanics of it.  First, there's no particular reason to limit it to dwarven ashes.

One way to limit the exploiting is to make the carbon imbue some kind of bonus that varies depending on the strength of relationship between the wielder and the ashes.  No relationship = normal carbon or even a hesitation to pick it up due to ickiness.  "Ashes of the beast that slew my brother" and "Beast slain by me" would be a nice addition to blood/marriage relationships.

[NJW2000]

Would this be moddable? WIth DFHack? Because it sounds like a really cool idea.

[klefenz]

AFAIK ashes dont contain much carbon, they contain pretty much everything else, like minerals and such, but the carbon goes in the smoke.
It is possible to make charcoal out of bones, and I have seen that in another roguelike.

[AceSV]

You could absolutely mod this into dwarf fortress.  You could possibly even preserve the name of the dwarf who got cremated.  Urist's corpse -> Urist's ashes -> Urist's steel bars.  But that might destroy the metal selection screen.  Some kind of bad thoughts would probably happen for not being buried, but you might be able to get around that with slabs. 

Also, if we were being accurate, there should be a lot more sources of flux than flux stone.  Shells, bones, sand, glass, etc.  Flux isn't even necessary for "steel", it just makes a better kind of steel.  Toady's steel-making reaction is based on modern steel-making, not medieval steel-making. 

[Shazbot]

I don't think this is grounded in fact. "Viking" swords weren't the product of domestic manufacture as we think; there was extensive trade in blades with the Rhineland Franks and elsewhere. The most prestigious swords in Norway during the Viking period were, in fact, imports. The best steel was crucible steel from Damascus, with its manufacture a trade secret. This is the method being supposed as used with bones to create steel, but the method was unknown in Europe for centuries. I wouldn't put dwarves past inventing crucible steel in their time period, or even against using bone (calcium carbonate and calcium phosphate) as a carbon source (the phosphate doesn't hurt either!), but to suppose it a lost Viking secret isn't well grounded.

[Gashcozokon]

I really like the idea of crafting with corpses as well,

But that might destroy the metal selection screen. 

I also have concerns for the lists.

Some kind of bad thoughts would probably happen for not being buried, but you might be able to get around that with slabs.

It partly comes down to [Ethics:] but I think a solid argument could also be made for the product to count AS the memorial. As outlined in the OP, the spirit may feel good about a chance at vengence of death in the form of a *Urist-metal Sword* sounds great. But I also think that +<<*Urist Diamond Ear Rings*>>+ could also be a great way to contribute to the Fortress Wealth and be remembered.

_{Edit: Fixed BBcode}

[BlueNovaJinx]

I don't think this is grounded in fact. "Viking" swords weren't the product of domestic manufacture as we think; there was extensive trade in blades with the Rhineland Franks and elsewhere. The most prestigious swords in Norway during the Viking period were, in fact, imports. The best steel was crucible steel from Damascus, with its manufacture a trade secret. This is the method being supposed as used with bones to create steel, but the method was unknown in Europe for centuries. I wouldn't put dwarves past inventing crucible steel in their time period, or even against using bone (calcium carbonate and calcium phosphate) as a carbon source (the phosphate doesn't hurt either!), but to suppose it a lost Viking secret isn't well grounded.

You are correct. After doing some fact checking, to the best of our knowledge the most famous "Ulfberht" swords started as imported steel from Damascus, were forged in Germany, and were most commonly found in Norway. Another less popular theory explains that "Ulfberht" stands for "Dwarven Export."

I wasn't trying to give credit specifically to the Vikings on this one. I just wanted to highlight the theory that early human steel workers may have used human remains in the forging process. Sorry about the sloppy citation.

Maybe it's too much Terry Pratchett, but I love the idea of dwarves handing down axes and such from generation to generation. The concept that the axe itself could be a goblin-head-splitting-memorial to an ancestor as an official in-game mechanic would be crazy.

[Aseaheru]

 Perhaps when magic gets added in Toady will do something like this in the base game. Having the spirit of a dwarf to help you fight your foes...

[Deboche]

Maybe it's too much Terry Pratchett, but I love the idea of dwarves handing down axes and such from generation to generation. The concept that the axe itself could be a goblin-head-splitting-memorial to an ancestor as an official in-game mechanic would be crazy.

This is kinda in the game already if you consider that after a lot of use a sword will become an artefact of sorts, just not with the ashes thing.

[Dirst]

Maybe it's too much Terry Pratchett, but I love the idea of dwarves handing down axes and such from generation to generation. The concept that the axe itself could be a goblin-head-splitting-memorial to an ancestor as an official in-game mechanic would be crazy.

This is kinda in the game already if you consider that after a lot of use a sword will become an artefact of sorts, just not with the ashes thing.

My understanding was that Discworld dwarves melted down the weapons and tools of the deceased, so in that case there wouldn't be much time for a legend to build up around the items.  DF dwarves are more reasonable on this point.

I never thought I'd actually write that sentence.

[illiousintahl]

I know I've straight rolled back to an earlier save when my legendary weapon smith got caught out by a goblin raid.

:O HERESY!!!! never rollback; accept the fun or abandon to ruin!!!

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

What the hell necro. Why don't you add something to the discussion if you have to necro?

[NJW2000]

Seems to be this troll guy's thing.

[illiousintahl]

What the hell necro. Why don't you add something to the discussion if you have to necro?

At this juncture i believe i have every right to say the same thing to you.