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[Featheredragon]

So as I implement more advanced crossbows, another question appeared in the confused mess of half-finished things I call my mind.

How would I impliment maille weaves? For example how could I make 4 in 1 less effective than 6 in 1 or 8 in 1?

For those who are confused, here is a good source:

http://cmb.lotos.ca/weaves.html

[MODcrazy]

Well... one way would be, to make several mail types as several materials, call them thismail or thatmail or something, and give them different properties; But as of how to make them only use this material for the armors, well, difficult to impossible.

However note that armor has quality that can reflect that, and, that the most significant factor ist the thickness of the rings and if the ends are just bent together or riveted together (the last one being, despite the incredible task of riveting thousands of rings together, the most common, afaik).

[Plazma_Rush]

Well... one way would be, to make several mail types as several materials, call them thismail or thatmail or something, and give them different properties; But as of how to make them only use this material for the armors, well, difficult to impossible.

If you're going for this route, you can make it so that the chainmail armour isn't produceable by the civ in the entity file, and then create custom reactions that create the "x in x chainmail" material and custom reactions to use the materials to make the actual armor.

[Zammer990]

You could have multiple types of mail shirt forgeable, and change the coverage values of the different shirts, but this has the effect of allowing nigh-impossible strikes to (rarely) blow unaided through armour. There's no real way of controlling thickness of items right now AFAIK, other than the size of whatever they're protecting.

[Pvt. Pirate]

to be honest:
as an archer, i can only advise you to remove all protection against arrows/bolts from chainmail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodkin_point
this is a war arrowhead and it penetrates everything except the heaviest platemail.
chainmail is only a protection against cutting and cant protect against any blunt or piercing attack.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Can you even selectively remove protection?

[Zammer990]

Can you even selectively remove protection?

No,
Besides, multiple layers of chainmal is a lot of metal to try and burst through, even with specially designed tips.

[peasant cretin]

Coverage values don't seem to work correctly either, unless all ITEM_ARMORs have a coif included since there's neck and face protection even at UBSTEP 1 and 2.

[Featheredragon]

to be honest:
as an archer, i can only advise you to remove all protection against arrows/bolts from chainmail.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodkin_point
this is a war arrowhead and it penetrates everything except the heaviest platemail.
chainmail is only a protection against cutting and cant protect against any blunt or piercing attack.

Depend on the mail. The bodkin pound finds a space between rings and then burstes the ring and the ones connected to it as the arrow/bolt head widens. Mos mail tested is 4in1. The higher the value the less spaces and the more rings needed to sunder. 4in1 in not even comparable to 6in1 vs projectiles, 12in1 or 8in2. However a type 7 needle boodkin point was designed to go through maille and gambeson, mail is pretty well useless against bodkin points. But some types of maille would fare better than others. Scale mails would be better though. Wear lots of padding.

EDIT: also depends if maille is of welded, riveted or butted construction. The best quality medieval maille was welded rings connected by riveted rings. And ring thickness as well as diameter. Russian maille rings were more flat like washers than like wire if I remember correctly, no idea how that would affect penetration.

[Grimlocke]

Tests I have seen where someone shot arrows at mail are pretty much universally poorly done. Do not be misled by some guys on TV shooting a streched out sheet of mild steel mail made from far too wide and thin rings attached to a wooden board.

Mail varied in quality greatly, but none of it was 'useless'. It was a very substantial investement, hugely laborious to make, yet used for over a thousand years in numerous places in the world.

Well made mail stopped arrows dead in their tracks. Plenty stories exist of crusaders walking around as arrow pin cushions. They lost a tabbard and probably got bruised black and blue, but were otherwise unharmed.

A few other things to remember are that mail was worn over a layer of very thick padding which cushioned blows and would render a minor penetration harmless. Mail when worn also does not stretch out fully but, if woven and worn correctly, will have slack left in the fabric and closely fall around the body.

To put it shortly, mail was pretty good stuff. Not as protective as plate armor, but still pretty good and much, much better than then the padded stuff the poorest saps on the battlefield wore (though even those were not as bad as you might think). Those guys were the ones the archers aimed for first.


Ahem, rant aside, you can make the various weaves by making a seperate armor with a higher coverage value. Armor thickness is Coverage*Layer size*1.25(UPSTEP+LBSTEP+UBSTEP), so simply increase the resulting thickness and material cost for more luxurious weaves. That way you can still make the various mail types from different metals.

As an optional you can also add padded armor, your free to grab the ones from my mod if you want.