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[paladin225]

Playing version 34.11

So, I've usually put the miner on engraving or giving him something else far away to dig out right after he takes the labor to mine the magma wall open and this has worked before to save the miners from being killed by the magma but it's not working this time for some reason.  I've reloaded the game and tried it a few times and he dies every time he opens the magma wall. Could pathing be what's slowing him down?  I see him instantly take the other labor but it still doesn't get him out of there fast enough.

I'm guessing if the same thing has happened a few times in a row from reloading the game, trying it again and again will probably just give me the same result.  Is there any way to save the miner without having to do something extremely complicated just to achieve a simple outcome?

I've heard of building a bridge or something like that and mining from on top of it but I don't really understand how that's supposed to work. Are there any video tutorials for this?

Thanks for the help!

Edit:  Thanks for all the advice!  I'll definitely have to try some of these strategies out eventually, however, it turned out that mining into the volcano diagonally gave my miner enough time to escape.

[MechaJeb Kerman]

Maybe someone can explain this better, but here's my attempt.

http://i.imgur.com/8RRcX1z.png (side view)

Dig to point 1, 2 blocks from the lava, dig up stairs. One level above dig down stairs, and mine out block #2, then channel out block 3 from above.

As for my amazing paint skills, I apologize for nothing.

[NullForceOmega]

Magma-safe door on a diagonal to the tile to be altered, use smoothing and carved fortifications instead of mining.  It works surprisingly well.

It looks something like this:

where M is magma, F is fortification, W is wall, D is a magma safe door hooked up to a lever (with magma safe mechanisms) and '.' is floor

Code: [Select]

MWWWWW
MFW...
MWD...
MWWWWW
Ensure that the door is hooked up after you make the tap, and the fortification carved only after the door is in place.  Also, take engraving labors off of any other dwarves and que up another smooth/engrave job as soon as the worker starts carving the fortification.

[Borge]

I really look forward to alchemy and production of black powder from charcoal, saltpeter and brimstone. Then we can just blow a hole open with levers.

[PatrikLundell]

The method I'm using relies on the magma tunnel to be at the top of the magma source. If that's the case, dig your magma tunnel up to one tile away from the magma source. Dig a corresponding tunnel above it, and then channel the next tile in the top tunnel to make a breach. I usually brick up the top tunnel an have magma safe drawbridges in the lower one.
However, the next time I need to breach magma somewhere in the middle (typically in a volcano embark), I'm going to try to grasp the bridge version (I've previously used the method above, with staircases to let breaching magma flow down. That usually works, but not always).

@NullForceOmega:
If I understand your setup correctly, I'd rather use a drawbridge than a door because of building destroyers (although I don't know of any magma dwelling building destroyers, so it might not matter).
With the jobs rewrite you don't even have to time the designation of the next engraver job, since you can just assign the breaching one a higher priority than the "get out of there!" one. Since a fortification carving requires smoothing first, you typically want to micro manage it anyway, though (it's a bit of a pity you cannot queue up a fortification carving on top of a smoothing designation. I work around that with a "dummy" smoothing beside the fortification to be smoothing so the bugger doesn't run away between the passes, but it obviously requires micro management to time the fortification carving, but several dummy smoothings (that are removed when the fortification one is designated) could help keeping the bugger in place).

[Bumber]

Smooth the wall and carve a fortification. That way you only lose an engraver instead of a miner (and pickaxe.)

Usually ordering them to pull a lever the tick they finish engraving/mining the wall saves them for me. The job priority update may have screwed up their reaction time, IDK.

[vanatteveldt]

I think an important job such as opening a new magma channel should be a momentous occasion for the fortress, and who else should preside over the grand opening than the Baron himself?

[NullForceOmega]

There is an important reason to use a door (you can always setup a drawbridge within the tunnel itself after all) and that is to allow your miner/ engraver time to escape without chance of harm, as soon as they step out of the doorway after completing the job, it closes and prevents the magma from flowing (this is why it needs to be rigged to a lever.)

[PatrikLundell]

The lever part is where I get lost. I thought normal doors closed as soon as someone was done stepping out of it, and thus would close as soon as the engraver left, whereas a lever controlled door was opened/closed as the lever dictated, so a dorf couldn't open a closed one, nor close an open one. I guess a lever controlled door ordered to close while someone was blocking it would act as a floodgate with an xsockx in it, though, and not crush the blocking item (=engraver), and that it might close as soon as the obstruction was removed (but you can bet the engraver decides to shed old clothing while there... It IS a critical location, after all).
Also, if the magma doesn't reach the door before the engraver has left, I though the engraver would be home free anyway even without a door, unless the bugger decided to take a nap or enjoy the scenery?

[NullForceOmega]

You don't link the lever to the door until after you make the tap, it's there so you can open the door permanently after the job is done.  And the door blocks ALL magma flow, so there is zero chance of the engraver getting fried, at all, ever.  If I had any idea how to upload a recording I'd do so.  This really is the single safest way to make a magma tap on a single level, I've done it dozens of times, and only once did I lose a dwarf, and that was because I'd stupidly ordered the construction of a wall next to the door and the mechanic setting the lever opened it and burned.

[Bumber]

There is an important reason to use a door (you can always setup a drawbridge within the tunnel itself after all) and that is to allow your miner/ engraver time to escape without chance of harm, as soon as they step out of the doorway after completing the job, it closes and prevents the magma from flowing (this is why it needs to be rigged to a lever.)

Generally the issue isn't the speed of the magma. It's getting the dwarf to take that first step in time. Magma doesn't pressurize without pumps.

[PatrikLundell]

I now get how you do it technically (I'd misunderstood that the lever was connected after the breach), but I still don't get the engraver protection part as I though a door propped open by a dorf would let fluid in even with a diagonal connection. Thus, it seems to me that a fortification possibly slows flow slightly, and a diagonal access slows it a bit more, so there is a bit of time for the dorf to move away from the door to let it close instantly, but given the speed at which magma flows, once the dorf has started to move, he'll be safe unless he stopped, so it seems the door would be a needless complication. And if you fail to get him to start to move, he'll fry regardless of there being a door or not.

[taptap]

@Patrik: Door is just best practice. You only need a single step faster than magma to safety, more in most other setups. With a lever-operated door you can conveniently stop fluid access later. Personally, I  build everything with a way to stop it AND some kind of drainage for maintenance access.

[vanatteveldt]

I agree that any fluid/magma project without a way of stopping the flow is usually Fun-inducing.

However, pre-building a drainage is not really necessary as you can almost always safely build one later since you can channel the last "wall" tile from above, ie just construct the drain when needed, build a flood gate / bridge on the dry side of the wall between fluid and drainage, and then channel out the wall from above.

[Bumber]

Thus, it seems to me that a fortification possibly slows flow slightly...

I doubt it. The benefit to fortifications is that you don't risk a pick axe, you don't leave a magma-safe boulder on the tile, and that it would block creatures if that bug gets fixed.

The only 100% safe ways are MechaJeb's way and the bridge exploit. Dwarves can mine tiles diagonally above through a bridge:

Code: (Diagram courtesy of khearn) [Select]

Side view
XXXXX~~~   X = rock    # = rock to be dug out
   _#~~~   ~ = magma
XXX☺X~~~   _ = bridge
XXXXX~~~   ☺ = miner