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Author Topic: Goblins climbing down into courtyard?  (Read 2027 times)

Sadegh

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Goblins climbing down into courtyard?
« on: August 24, 2015, 07:12:40 am »

This is how my entrance looked some time before goblins besieged the fortress and entered beyond the moat, overwhelming the unprepared population:



What are their climbing abilities exactly?

Do I need to surround the courtyard entirely by a moat like this if I want to expect it to be safe or what?
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Graknorke

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Re: Goblins climbing down into courtyard?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2015, 07:19:26 am »

Could you show what's on the layer above?
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Goblins climbing down into courtyard?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2015, 08:00:09 am »

Enemies can climb anything but smoothed natural rock. They're also able to climb an overhang jutting out one tile, but not two, nor can they climb past a floor jutting out one tile.
They can also climb DOWN a natural, unsmoothed wall (i.e. attacking from the south).
Apart from that, some Titans can fly.
There is also mentioning of goblins using mounts, including flying mounts, although I've never encountered any goblin siege with mounts.
Swimmers can cross a moat, although it's unclear if they can climb on the other side.
Anyone can walk over a frozen moat...
Very few creatures can cross a moat filled with magma, unless they can fly.

Always have at least one drawbridge to allow you to close the access to the fortress proper.

Personally I use a fairly small courtyard (up to 13*13 or so) covered by a roof. If the second level is soil as well, I channel out the courtyard instead of building walls.
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Bumber

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Re: Goblins climbing down into courtyard?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2015, 10:46:25 am »

Why did you make your courtyard so vulnerable to archers? A few archer towers along the wall would have worked for defense.
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Sadegh

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Re: Goblins climbing down into courtyard?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2015, 10:05:20 pm »

Personally I use a fairly small courtyard (up to 13*13 or so) covered by a roof. If the second level is soil as well, I channel out the courtyard instead of building walls.

Based on what I've read, you need to build up/down stairs to the next highest z-level to start building the roof. How then do you prevent access from the stairs when it's finished? Wall the stairs in?

Also, will this work if I'm roofing over fortifications rather than walls?

Could you show what's on the layer above?

Sorry, I deleted my saves shortly after taking the screenshot. But I suspect the fact that enemies can climb down all but smoothed natural stone walls (and, presumably, fortifications) is perfectly adequate to explain what happened here.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 03:13:43 am by Sadegh »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Goblins climbing down into courtyard?
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2015, 02:46:53 am »

I start with a courtyard that has a 3 tile ramp down to a drawbridge into the courtyard. Later (in time for the second dwarven caravan at the latest) I expand the entrance to a serpentine dug caravan entrance path and make a roof over where the previous entrance was. The entrance path has another drawbridge at the end and a replacement set of ramps down to it.
The above means I don't use stairs but ramps in this case (when channeling out the courtyard initially ramps are formed naturally, but I remove them before putting up the roof (I think conversion of a sun exposed ramp into a floor removes the sun exposed trait, and thus makes those tiles unsuitable for grazing/overground farming if channeled away later).

Basically:

wwwwwwrrrwwwwww
wwwwwwbbbwwwwww
wwwwwwbbbwwwwww
w.............w
w.............w
w.............w
w.............w
w.............w
w.............w
w.............w
w.............w
w.............w
w.............w
w.............w
wwwwwwwdwwwwwww
wwwwwww.wwwwwww
wwwwwwwfwwwwwww
wwwwwww.wwwwwww
wwwwwwwDwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwww


where:
w=wall
r=ramp
b=drawbridge
d=door
f=dwarven footbath (to wash away blood, etc)
D=down staircase

The door is there from the beginning, where it's needed to keep undead out if they attack during the first summer.
Down below I have a tunnel with an airlocking pair of drawbridges and cage traps in between.

Yes, you can roof over fortifications the same way as you can roof over walls. There is a caveat, however, in that BUILT fortifications do not have an integrated roof, whereas CARVED ones do. This has two implications:
1. You shouldn't be able to walk on top of a built fortification, since there is no floor there.
2. If you forget to build a floor over the built fortifications critters can get in diagonally from above. At least flyers (including those pesky Keas) can, but I'm, unsure if that's valid for climbers as well.

« Last Edit: August 25, 2015, 02:52:01 am by PatrikLundell »
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Sadegh

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Re: Goblins climbing down into courtyard?
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2015, 03:34:21 am »

I'm thinking about just leaving the top of the courtyard open but then walling and roofing in all outdoor facilities, which will then be connected to the main underground facilities.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Goblins climbing down into courtyard?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2015, 04:07:10 am »

All of my outdoor facilities are located in the courtyard... Well, much later I tend to build an orchard.
When I channel out my courtyard I expand it by digging niches for a trade depot and a farmer's workshop (for shearing/spinning; I don't bother with milk), as well as an overground seed stockpile. When building walls everything will have to share the original space (the seed stockpile is usually dug out, though).

Flying pests (mainly Keas but there are others) are as good a reason to roof over as invasions.
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g2knee

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Re: Goblins climbing down into courtyard?
« Reply #8 on: August 27, 2015, 01:48:38 pm »

It's already been said that enemies can climb any kind of wall except smoothed stone. 

It should be noted, however, than a wall made of BLOCKS is more difficult to climb than one made of raw stone.
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