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[Telgin]

If this was without technology or whatever, sure.  It's just weird that in a space faring society with enough food to go around, having competition causes a species to begin dying off.  The other species should grow faster, absolutely, but that's kind of going a bit far.

[Chosrau]

Are they declining because they're dying off or because they're emigrating?

[Broseph Stalin]

Can't you manually choose which pops grow? I'm playing life seeded xenophobes and it's how I make sure I have enough of my own race to do specialist jobs and not so many slaves that they cause unemployment.

[forsaken1111]

I just tried out the new pop growth mechanics with a diverse empire, and yep, they're kind of stupid.  Much worse than I expected, even in 2.2.5.  Life-seed + multiple species = terrible idea.  Since you have 0% habilitability on most planets, your species gets outcompeted in every case, so it never gets chosen to grow anywhere but your homeworld.

you WANT your 0% habitability species to grow on planets where they will cost double to maintain? I used to get annoyed by the old system because it would choose pops for planet growth regardless of habitability, I'd end up with species growing on planets where they have 20% or worse habitability and have to manually move them off.

Can't you manually choose which pops grow? I'm playing life seeded xenophobes and it's how I make sure I have enough of my own race to do specialist jobs and not so many slaves that they cause unemployment.

Only if you have population controls enabled, which you can't do if you're egalitarian iirc.

[Sartain]

Can't you manually choose which pops grow? I'm playing life seeded xenophobes and it's how I make sure I have enough of my own race to do specialist jobs and not so many slaves that they cause unemployment.

I'm pretty sure you need at least some habitability for that to work. So as soon as you research any of those techs it should be good but until then your Life-Seeded pops will die out, presumably because the planet atmosphere is lethal to them.

[Paul]

I tried a life seeded empire. Settled on some other worlds solely to grow pops for my home world. Kept migrating the new pops back to my home and just using the new planets for growing pops. This worked great until one pop of refugees arrived who had tomb world habitability. Then suddenly my race started declining everywhere except the home world while new pops started growing, even the home world was trying to grow the aliens. I had to set the rights for the refugees to where they couldn't migrate and put them on a world by themselves because their mere presence caused my entire species to die off.

[Telgin]

I just tried out the new pop growth mechanics with a diverse empire, and yep, they're kind of stupid.  Much worse than I expected, even in 2.2.5.  Life-seed + multiple species = terrible idea.  Since you have 0% habilitability on most planets, your species gets outcompeted in every case, so it never gets chosen to grow anywhere but your homeworld.

you WANT your 0% habitability species to grow on planets where they will cost double to maintain? I used to get annoyed by the old system because it would choose pops for planet growth regardless of habitability, I'd end up with species growing on planets where they have 20% or worse habitability and have to manually move them off.

Not exactly, and I totally understand not wanting new pops with bad habitability to grow on planets.  The problem here was that I claimed about 5 worlds before I met anyone else, and had 10-20 pops on each.  When I signed the migration treaty, those pops started dying off instead of better pops just growing in the future.

What's even more strange, is that they were dying off at the same rate as extermination, at -5 growth per month.  That almost entirely countered the pop growth of the new pops.  That much at least doesn't sound like it's working as intended.

Can't you manually choose which pops grow? I'm playing life seeded xenophobes and it's how I make sure I have enough of my own race to do specialist jobs and not so many slaves that they cause unemployment.

Only if you have population controls enabled, which you can't do if you're egalitarian iirc.

Right.  I was trying to play as egalitarian federation builders since I wanted to do the opposite of my usual imperial xenophobes, so pop controls were off.

Are they declining because they're dying off or because they're emigrating?

It's probably supposed to represent emigration, but with the way immigration and emigration works in 2.2 it just meant that they vanished and presumably died.

[Criptfeind]

Tbh I think the whole pop system might need an overhaul at this point, but the issue with that is that the pop system basically is the economic system. Any sort of sensible pop growth system with the way the economy currently works is going to be pretty unbalanced one way or another imo.

[Paul]

They just need to change the decline mechanic to actually send them somewhere better. Like maybe the Gaia world would have +30 growth due to 6 planets declining at 5 a month.

[Telgin]

Something like that would help.  I've read of other situations where emigration leads to pops effectively disappearing, which is weird.  I understand why they implemented the system like they did, from a simplicity point of view, but it leads to odd situations.

And I was wrong earlier about the pops declining as if being exterminated.  They actually were just declining at -5 per month, not the -35 for extermination.  Still, it canceled out pop growth and made the pops die off, which is still annoying.

Trying again with a non Life-seeded species is working much better, and the new pops are just being selected by habitability like expected instead of my primary species dying off.

[LoSboccacc]

am I doing something wrong or is it so that early game has nothing much happening beyond click trough anomalies and the occasional space amoebas? 

[forsaken1111]

am I doing something wrong or is it so that early game has nothing much happening beyond click trough anomalies and the occasional space amoebas? 

early game excitement depends entirely on how densely populated your map is.

[Rolan7]

Early game combat is relatively safe, since they have to dedicate precious influence on claiming (when they can just expand for similar cost and less hassle). Basic starbases are almost pretty strong against basic corvettes, initially.

It's still an extremely *important* phase, though. Expanding ASAP, even for relatively tall play, lets you choose profitable, defensible systems. My last play was tall Inward Perfection, aka no offensive wars, so the initial expansion was even more crucial: 3 science ships, 3 constructors. Expanding with tendrils so as to cordon off areas for later expansion, limited by influence. Had some serious sprawl modifier for a while, heh.

[Zangi]

On Population:
Inherently, only 1 species on a planet are allowed to grow at a time.
1a. In vanilla settings, what population gets chosen to grow is heavily weighted toward the smallest population on the planet.
1b. There is a negative modifier on weights for low habitability, but in vanilla settings, is not a big enough factor to override the bonus from 'choose-the smallest-population'.
1c. The capital is the only planet which has a 'native species' weight modifier.

What naturally happens is that an empire with no population controls and its living space capacity filled, will have its native species decline in proportion to however many other species reside in its borders.

Equality at its finest.  Enjoy low habitability species living where they don't have any right to.

Though, this is 2 months old and may have been slightly changed.

[Telgin]

It was slightly tweaked in either 2.2.4 or the 2.2.5 beta, can't remember which.  Reports are that habitability factors much more into the calculation now such that low habitability pops are much less likely to grow on planets.  That much does seem to be working as intended, as I have Racket pops with tomb world habitability growing almost to exclusion on the tomb world in my borders.