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[Cruxador]

Yknow what would solve all of this silly outpost flappery? Researchable tech that improves (marginally) space-based resource and science generation. Maybe .5 min/energy/sci per upg.

Makes sense that if mining technology improves planetary mining it would have some effect on asteroid mining as well.

Wiz is ideologically against that since he thinks it makes planets matter too little. But yeah, theoretically a system should be "good enough" to be worth keeping in all regards if it gives three to five points of science, one point of energy, and like half a point of unity (as of the beta) at most reasonable empire sizes and common research income levels.

[Mephansteras]

Honestly, after playing through most of a 2.02 beta game...I'm liking how this all works. My space Dwarves have been strong all the way through. The 'deliberatly claim' system mechanic is somewhat micro-intensive, but since I often ran out of influence to go grab systems it was micro every once in a while and it really made me plan out what I was going to get next.

I also fill in all of my space and leave no gaps. But that's partially my preference to have strong borders and no pirates and partly an RP thing with the space dwarves being very defensive minded.

Do note that several of the Traditions reduce the penalties for having more planets and reduce the cost/maintenance of stations so growing big is quite feasible with the right planning.

I'm not sure if the AI is getting any discounts on system maintenance, but they seem to have grown fairly reasonably for most of the game. They did push out a bit faster than me early on, but I did focus on a bit of early economic growth rather than rapid expansion, so not sure how much cheating was going on there. As it is, I was about on par for most of the nations near me until late game when my Federation started smacking everyone around us and absorbing them. Except for me, since I've been surrounded by federation members for a long time. So I've gone tall and built a dozen Habitats or so. Currently working on a ringworld as a background project right now. Dwarves do Megaprojects, so I went all in on those.

I *really* like the claim system for warfare. It feels more worthwhile to do small fights to gain bits of territory, and nations gaining/losing territory works much more organically.

Right now we've got the space invader bugs crisis munching on the other end of the galaxy from me, and I'm planning on how to defeat them if they get this far. They might not, there is an Awakened Empire right near them now who might solve the problem for us. If not, I've got Jump Drives and Gateways and the strongest non-AE fleet in the game. And a Doomsday device (neutron painter) that should make quick work of infected planets.

Most fun I've had in Stellaris in a long time!

[Cruxador]

Do note that several of the Traditions reduce the penalties for having more planets and reduce the cost/maintenance of stations so growing big is quite feasible with the right planning.

Neither the penalties for planets or the cost/maintenance for stations are the problem though. It's the upkeep of stations. And there's no such problem as "you can't grow big", it's that it's strictly better for you to not claim systems you could claim, which have no downside that should logically exist, but only an artificial downside due to game mechanics.

I'm not sure if the AI is getting any discounts on system maintenance

The thing that there was drama about was fleet maintenance. That was what was demonstrated to be the case after Wiz said that the AI doesn't cheat on Normal difficulty. It could be the case that they also cheat regarding system maintenance, but nobody has proved that to my knowledge.

[Dorsidwarf]

I never bother to fill up my empire until late game (and even that's just to make my map icon bigger because the lategame of stellaris is excruciatingly boring), I just string outposts out until i've taken chokepoints then grab any actually worthwhile systems, since the unity/science costs are enormous. Pirates are weaksauce and won't be getting me to stop, especially if they're going to put an energy cost (oh boy my biggest early-midgame struggle) on having all those utterly worthless systems too.

[Hanzoku]

Now granted, I don’t play multiplayer at all, but I’ve not experiencing any problems going wide in my games since 2.0. I still end up one of the most powerful factions quickly, I always end up one of the most technologically advanced and since I pay attention to unity generation methods that still churns along with a new tradition every few years.

[Mephansteras]

Yeah, I didn't have any issues with science or Unity. And all but a few science based systems include at least a 2 energy source, so the energy cost of stations isn't all that big a concern, though I did have to pay more attention to deliberately building power generation on planets this game than anything else. Of course, the game did decide not to give me most of the energy plant upgrades until mid-game (thanks RNG) so that probably had a lot to do with it.

[Hanzoku]

Yeah, I ended up building mist of my colony starbases up as trading stations which has helped on the energy side.

[Paul]

I'm not a guru or anything, but I wrote an extraordinarily long winded guide on 2.0 for people coming back to the game. Check it out here if you like: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1326541406

Let me know if you see any glaring errors or if you find it helpful. I had fun writing it. I probably need to improve the formatting, but find the formatting in steam to be a bit clunky.

[umiman]

After... hmm... 30 hours or so in a campaign with these I like the idea of systems changing hands via control of the space stations. It adds depth and strategy though once again, unfortunately gamey-fying space.

That being said, I still think being forced to slowly build fucking stations everywhere at the start of every game is idiotic and pointless busywork. There has to be a better solution. And I still think there should be some kind of natural border growth.

Maybe make it so outposts can be upgraded so they spread influence over two systems and more as they level up. That would also alleviate the problem of wars where you slowly have to attack each frigging outpost along the way. Make like core "provinces" and things should be less dumb.

[Dunamisdeos]

I agree that it should flow a bit easier at the start. It's very choppy in terms of progress and gameplay early game.

That said, as far as wars go I generally just have two much smaller fleets to take their outposts with. I don't usually war until mid game, so a couple of 500 fleets isn't hard to scrounge up. Keeps the AI split apart too, since they often end up sending their reinforcements to retake their outposts instead of fighting your main fleets.

Also hey, fun but obvious fact, you can disassemble mining/science stations that you are occupying without consequence. I fought a short war to take 2 very valuable systems (one of em had 10 phy/8 soc/8 eng) and ended up just deleting 12-15 stations of his to hobble him in the future since he was a warlike neighbor.

[Paul]

I use fast corvette fleets outfitted with afterburners to take outposts while my main fleet (destroyers or battleships/titans depending on how far along I am) take the larger starbases and defended positions and help my ground forces take the planets. When facing their main fleet I include the corvettes too since they counter enemy corvettes better, but the battleship/titan fleet does a great job of pounding down citadels and defense platforms. I can usually take all the basic outposts before I've finished invading the worlds.

[umiman]

Why does habitat stations count as planets for the victory condition?

I was just minding my business, spamming habitat stations everywhere when bam. You win. Wow, thanks game. I didn't even do anything to deserve it.

[Baffler]

I use fast corvette fleets outfitted with afterburners to take outposts while my main fleet (destroyers or battleships/titans depending on how far along I am) take the larger starbases and defended positions and help my ground forces take the planets. When facing their main fleet I include the corvettes too since they counter enemy corvettes better, but the battleship/titan fleet does a great job of pounding down citadels and defense platforms. I can usually take all the basic outposts before I've finished invading the worlds.

This is basically how I do it, but the outpost capping fleets are usually a cuiser with a trio of destroyer escorts for 10 fleet cap, with special classes of both for that role. It's more expensive than a corvette squad but it gives them a bit of staying power. They won't be capturing big fortified stations but they can usually grab more lightly defended areas, and maybe more importantly intercept small groups of enemy reinforcements, without taking any losses where an unlucky corvette might end up falling out of formation or being destroyed entirely.

Actually I don't really use corvettes much at all in this version, though I feel I should mention I don't have synthetic dawn or apocalypse. The only real advantage they have over destroyers is that they can fit a missile, so I just use them as torpedo boats and have the actual fleet screen be destroyers equipped to fight destroyers and corvettes plus some point defense (although I'll remove the PD if the enemy isn't using fighters or missiles.) I use battleships as carriers for the most part, so they get artillery type weapons and only have a small portion of them. Cruisers outfitted with artillery are also in there, but they're outnumbered by cruisers with broadside configurations. The ratio ends up being about 1:3:1:6:1 of CV:CA:CL:DD:TB. I don't know how that compares as a strategy to others, but it does decently against the AI who seem to prefer to have about the same number of each hull size. The AI also doesn't seem to bother all that much with point defense so Macross Missile Massacre seems like it might work out pretty well, but I haven't bothered to test it out yet.

So how does everyone else set up their fleets?

[Dunamisdeos]

I'm usually fairly balanced but with a lean towards heavy ships. I usually run 20 or so corvettes because I can get that evasion up past 100% (ridiculous) and then 10 destroyers for picketing unless I know i'm going into a missile-heavy atmosphere. The bulk is made up by heavy-hitting cruisers with as much accuracy as I can pack into them, and battleships for artillery/strike craft.

Fun fact, point defense prioritizes strike craft. A few strike craft can go a long way in a missile/torpedo heavy offensive loadout.

[umiman]

I like missile heavy fleets simply because I like missile-heavy fleets in mah space games.

It's either missiles, giant-ass lasers, or giant cannons (in a battery).

Don't like the looks of little lasers unless they're like... hmm... Sword of the Stars phasers.