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[Rolan7]

Hosting on Mediafire is still "exclusive" if you don't share the link around.  Hosting on ModDB puts it in a public index.
So a hypothetical pirate wouldn't be able to find the mod on Mediafire, since no Paradox account to find the link, but would see it on ModDB easy.

[Kot]

Hosting on Mediafire is still "exclusive" if you don't share the link around.  Hosting on ModDB puts it in a public index.
So a hypothetical pirate wouldn't be able to find the mod on Mediafire, since no Paradox account to find the link, but would see it on ModDB easy.

And all it takes is a single guy who leaks the link to wherever the pirates hang around.

[scriver]

Hosting on Mediafire is still "exclusive" if you don't share the link around.  Hosting on ModDB puts it in a public index.
So a hypothetical pirate wouldn't be able to find the mod on Mediafire, since no Paradox account to find the link, but would see it on ModDB easy.

Ah, I understand how that point could be a breach as well, then.

[Cruxador]

I'm confused. How does hosting mods on the paradox forums prevent major mods?

Providing the option harms nothing. The problem is that the option is not very good, because it greatly hinders pushing updates and because it's impossible for multi-person teams to contribute equally. It simply isn't a possible feature to use for every workflow.

Or are you, you? Or one of our normal bay12ers under a different name? You seem familiar...

I don't often come to the lower forums, but I've been around bay12 for the better part of the decade. You may have seen me elsewhere too, under the same name.

And all it takes is a single guy who leaks the link to wherever the pirates hang around.

All it takes is a single guy who takes the mod from the Paradox download and uploads to mediafire. The only functional difference is for a pirate is like three minutes of someone's time. Someone who bought the game, incidentally, but wants to share content with people who didn't. The  only people effected here are people who bought the game, because the users of the forums and of mods are all legitimate users anyway. This is an attempt to keep good content only to those people, I guess, but not only will it not work, it was never possible for this to work. The internet isn't actually a series of tubes, you can leave Paradox's domain easily and find stuff like that if you want to. Hindering mods, one of the biggest selling points for Paradox games and for CK2 in particular, damages the brand quite a bit. Damaging the brand means less people are likely to buy the game, because the fact of the matter is that people only buy because they want to. Piracy is easy enough that nobody buys a game because the devs have tricked or bullied them into it. Even if you ignore the fact that some potential customers will just plain not play the game due to lack of positive publicity, hiding resources that allow piracy would only be effective if Paradox had monopoly over the internet. Hiding resources that are used to build mods, which add publicity, purely because they might theoretically have some relation to piracy, is possibly the most foolish business decision I've heard of since McDonalds decided to undercut themselves with the all day breakfast menu.

[WealthyRadish]

You can easily access any mod page without a paradox account, incidentally. Search google for "site:forum.paradoxplaza.com mod", and presto, you can view any page's cache with no problem (though obviously you'd use a more specific search term than "mod" if you were really looking for something).

Personally I think most of Paradox's mod rules are unnecessary and bothersome, which is one reason why I don't typically release the mods I've made for their games publicly (I'm also lazy and don't want to update or polish them is the bigger reason). The one rule about being unable to claim copyright for instance, I'm fairly sure that's illegal, and it may even be impossible to renounce copyright as they're requesting. It's not that it really matters, since I and every other modder would probably consider their work an open source license anyway, but it just makes it seem like a bad environment to release stuff in.

[redwallzyl]

...and hosting on moddb.com is not a violation...

You did read all of those rules, right? Particularly #10?

"10) The Mod should be exclusive to the members of this forum and or Steam workshop."

So putting the mod up anywhere other than Paradox or Steam violates the exclusivity. And yet there it is, seemingly unhindered by Paradox, despite what certain people are saying.

Paradox does not themselves offer hosting, hence:

2) User Mod files should be hosted on a file share site designed for use by the public (if they know the specific address) and or Steam Workshop.

Is moddb.com different from any other file hosting sites in this regard in any way I am not aware of? Because otherwise there is no violation.

*cough*

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hello modders,

In our continuing attempt to make it easier to participate in modding our games, we have heard you that you need a place to host larger files. We do not think it is fair that you should have to pay for hosting at the same time we do not allow you to take donations or to charge for your Mod.

We have listened and have been working toward finding a solution for you. With that in mind you should now be able to add your Mod as an attachment to this board. The attachment will use our own CDN. This should allow for efficient download times no matter where your fans are downloading it from.

Since this is new to us all, there maybe some issues with initially uploading the files. Currently the uploading system does require Flash so if you use an apple product you may be out of luck.

This is primarily for those mods that are too large to be efficiently used by the Steam workshop or that otherwise prefer not to use it. We ask you not to direct link to the download rather to your Download thread here as per the modding rules.

We are very open to ideas and methods to improve this functionality for both you as the uploader and your fans as downloaders.

Please provide your feed back and feel free to tag me in your post so I am sure to see it.

also no you cant access the mod forum unless you have a verified paradox account with that game.

[WealthyRadish]

also no you cant access the mod forum unless you have a verified paradox account with that game.

Just checked, and yeah, looks like they fixed it. There are subforums for older games that don't require a linked account, but the others are no longer accessible through google's cached pages, it seems.

[jocan2003]

also no you cant access the mod forum unless you have a verified paradox account with that game.

Just checked, and yeah, looks like they fixed it. There are subforums for older games that don't require a linked account, but the others are no longer accessible through google's cached pages, it seems.

Well to be honest it is a good DRM system, if you crack the game you cannot install mod, It is not an intrusive protection system. This way if you like the base game enough you might buy it just for the mods, i know i did it myself, loved a game so much but had trouble with some mods or couldnt access the steam workshop to install more so i went and bought it.

Now i know how to downlaod from the workshop without having the game but it is not the discussion here, what i am saying is i very well approve toward the *extra* being attached to base game, bby that i meant multiplayer section, mods, metagame stuff like that being totally locked out should you crack yet you can still try the full game without the extra.

And now i dont even remember why i pressed reply.... I need to hit my head to clear it i believe. Oh yeah, i prefer extra being locked out than invasive DRM/Copy protection thingy.

[Leyic]

As I understand it, it's not even DRM, just plain old community splitting: paid users get in, pirates stay out.

Providing the option harms nothing. The problem is that the option is not very good, because it greatly hinders pushing updates and because it's impossible for multi-person teams to contribute equally. It simply isn't a possible feature to use for every workflow.

What? Paradox's rules only apply to the distribution of the mod. Other than the part about the development forum needing to be private (which is evidently an unenforced rule), Paradox's rules shouldn't affect anyone's workflow.

...This is an attempt to keep good content only to those people...

...Hindering mods, one of the biggest selling points for Paradox games and for CK2 in particular, damages the brand quite a bit. Damaging the brand means less people are likely to buy the game...

It's not an attempt to keep good content locked away as there are at least two ways to get content outside of the walls without violating the rules: 1. Have someone independent of the development team responsible for distribution outside the wallls, 2. Don't have a presence inside the walls. That said, it's irrelevant since multiple mods violate the exclusivity rule without having any apparent repercussions.

Paradox's rules regarding community access have been in place since EUIII at least, so several years. Modding has flourished despite this (at least for the games with large audiences). Paradox doesn't seem to be in any financial trouble seeing as they have four games in various stages of development simultaneously. Whatever damage the rules may have done to their brand, if any, look to be completely negligible.

[Cruxador]

Well to be honest it is a good DRM system, if you crack the game you cannot install mod, It is not an intrusive protection system. This way if you like the base game enough you might buy it just for the mods, i know i did it myself, loved a game so much but had trouble with some mods or couldnt access the steam workshop to install more so i went and bought it.

Locking people out of the mod section is one thing, since it only effects people who don't have the game legitimately. Preventing people from using both that mod forum and somewhere else, though, not only hinders the development of the modding community, but also undermines that effort by encouraging people to find another nexus for modding.

[Cruxador]

What? Paradox's rules only apply to the distribution of the mod. Other than the part about the development forum needing to be private (which is evidently an unenforced rule), Paradox's rules shouldn't affect anyone's workflow.

The previously unenforced rule is being enforced now.

It's not an attempt to keep good content locked away as there are at least two ways to get content outside of the walls without violating the rules: 1. Have someone independent of the development team responsible for distribution outside the wallls, 2. Don't have a presence inside the walls. That said, it's irrelevant since multiple mods violate the exclusivity rule without having any apparent repercussions.

1. is illicit, 2. is almost as bad as having no presence outside the walls in terms of dividing the modding community.

Paradox's rules regarding community access have been in place since EUIII at least, so several years. Modding has flourished despite this (at least for the games with large audiences).

Unenforced rules, as you say, don't have an impact. Previously they tacitly allowed links in reasonable contexts, whenever there was a legitimate mod-related purpose. The problem is that they're now enforcing them widely.

[Cruxador]

Okay, instead let's talk about how Stellaris is gonna be great except it's actually going to be terrible because influence points are basically bird mana all over again, and the leader cap means that your characters are like EU4's playing card advisors rather than CK2's important characters, and planetary customization is going to be utterly non-meaningful (until the inevitable DLC).

[redwallzyl]

Okay, instead let's talk about how Stellaris is gonna be great except it's actually going to be terrible because influence points are basically bird mana all over again, and the leader cap means that your characters are like EU4's playing card advisors rather than CK2's important characters, and planetary customization is going to be utterly non-meaningful (until the inevitable DLC).

whats the influence points thing? this is the first I've heard of it. and how is a limit on the number of characters reduce their importance? if anything having less should means you value them more?

[Cruxador]

Well, someone's already made up their minds about anything Paradox will ever develop.

Maybe I'm feeling more negative about them now because of what they're doing to CK2. And what they did with EU4, and where HoI4 looks like it might be going. Comparatively speaking, Stellaris is the best looking of their games in a while, but we've got to talk about something.

Okay, instead let's talk about how Stellaris is gonna be great except it's actually going to be terrible because influence points are basically bird mana all over again, and the leader cap means that your characters are like EU4's playing card advisors rather than CK2's important characters, and planetary customization is going to be utterly non-meaningful (until the inevitable DLC).

whats the influence points thing? this is the first I've heard of it. and how is a limit on the number of characters reduce their importance? if anything having less should means you value them more?

Influence points were introduced briefly in Dev Diary 6 as a diplomatic currency that you use to pay for leaders, and mentioned again in dev diary 12 as able to pay for edicts. They don't look like they're going to be that huge of an aspect of the game, and are more sensibly constrained in what they represent than the three mana pools of EU4, but that particular blunder is still enough to inspire apprehension in me.

Limiting the number of characters does mean that the individuals are valued more, all else being equal, but it means that the system is valued less.

[Shadowlord]

If you accrue them over time it sounds like the points you accumulate (diplomatic, espionage, etc) in HoI3.