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[Tiruin]

The use of immature animals and/or humans (babies, puppies, kittens, etc.) in battle is prohited

Look I only proposed kitten guided missiles in one other thread!

Stuff like these should include the testing grounds or experimental fields. :v

That said: I am very intrigued by this thread [also Kot, your avatars are all awesome cats. I really hope to learn how to draw in very simple moves like you. Much inspire, this thread is.]

[Sheb]

Did we vote on Motorsport? I'll submit Tiger-Polo.

Spoiler: National Sport: Tiger-Polo (click to show/hide)

This sport has gained a lot of popularity over the last few years, surpassing Competitive Military Parading as the favorite of all Arstotzkans.

The story start in the wet jungle of Western Forenia. The 117th Motorcycle Scout Company's duties, among others, included the hunting and killing of tigers, both to protect the Arstotzkan troops from attack, and to  prevent the Moksburger from getting any R&R.

In order to motivate its troops, Major Kerbaiev, the commanding officer of the 117th, promised one bottle of Five-Star Vodka for each tiger carcass its men brought him. One day, Caporal Kerniev and Sergeant Morossov were both patrolling the perimeter when they spotted a tiger. Both men sprayed the bushes with SMG fire, and the tiger fell. Kerniev and Morossov had a long history of rivalry, each claimed the kill. As they bickered, each trying to grab the carcass, other men joined in, each riding around each other trying to grab the tiger.

In the end Morossov got the tiger to the Major (Kerniev claims he only "let that asshole Morossov wins out of respect for his rank").

Nowadays, the sport is played by professional players in a stadium 400m by 400m. Two teams of 10 members on turbo-boosted motorcycle try to grab a dead tiger carcass (although deers or pigs are sometime used in smaller matches) and drag it to a goal on the other side of the field. One a goal is marked, the carcass is brought back to the center and each team return to its half of the field. The team with the most point after two 45 minutes period wins the game.

The Arstotzkan Attackers and the Kabergrad Killers (officially AS-CC-77-TPT-01 and AS-BG-89-TPT-02, but try chanting that!) are the two main team in Arstotzka. The attackers are captained by none other that Sergeant Morossov, while the Killers are led by Caporal Kerniev, and the rivalry between the two is just as great as ever.

And just like in the time of the 117th, the winning team still get a bottle of Five Star Vodka.

Tl;dr: Motorcycle Buzkashi with a dead tiger carcass.

[Kot]

I will be hearing arguments (not votes) for A and B options, from both sides, and of course Kot and 10ebbor10 in particular.

I'm for B. This makes the gun have a direct counter (or rather counters, as slat armor, spaced armor and even sloped armor can be used as such), and I would be kinda salty if we had (do we? If we do, this is the best time to change it, as the problem has been already brought up) something like that. Also, I'm not really sure that HEAT would change the thing a whole lot, after all, AP from Breaker doesn't seem to have trouble penetrating us, and I'm not sure that ~4cm HEAT rounds would be much better than APHE, maybe only at long distances.

EDIT:
Also, regarding the war crime thing, would the law work backwards? If so, Moskurg should pay for Fyodor Billotzic execution by tigers.

[Sheb]

Should be noted that Moksburg already got shaped charge (which aren't exactly the same as HEAT, but very close). So deciding that the Hippo was using shaped charge all along wouldn't be game-changing.

[Kot]

Should be noted that Moksburg already got shaped charge (which aren't exactly the same as HEAT, but very close). So deciding that the Hippo was using shaped charge all along wouldn't be game-changing.

The common term in military terminology for shaped charge warheads is high explosive anti-tank (HEAT).

It IS HEAT.

[10ebbor10]

Should be noted that Moksburg already got shaped charge (which aren't exactly the same as HEAT, but very close). So deciding that the Hippo was using shaped charge all along wouldn't be game-changing.

Sensei has explitedly said that it will improve Moskurg anti-armor performance significantly.

This would improve moskurg anti-armor performance considerably.

Speaking of which, I find the entire B option kind of flawed

>Nerf the AP, but explain previous performance by giving it moderately effective HEAT rounds.

So far so good.

>On the other hand, these HEAT rounds would be available for Breaker guns and possibly SPATs, as a matter of consistency. This would improve moskurg anti-armor performance considerably.

Wait a moment. Didn't we just add the HEAT to explain past performance, and hence be consistent with past turns?

And thus, would adding a significant bonus to Moskurg Breaker guns not once again break that consistency, by causing past guns to have been worse than they should have been?

Hence, my option C proposal. (Rename APHE to HEAT, no performance changes).

Advantages :

- Consistent with past and future performance of all weaponry
- Consistent with expected performance of all weaponry
- Resolves the ambiguity currently present, where in-game APHE (AP charges with explosive on the back to improve penetration) refers to something entirely different than those IRL. (AP shells with HE inside to improve damage)
- Does not punish Arztotska for the audacity to speak up.
- Does not retroactively damage Moskurg

Disadvantages :

- None

[Sheb]

I'm under the impression that HEAT involve a metal layer inside the shaped charge to punch through the armor.

[Taricus]

Disadvantages: Rewards Arstotzka for being salty about a game (Speaking up is fine. Several pages of whining about it is not)

>The Final Word on Recoilless Rifles

Argument C: For all point and purposes, the Moskurgian APHE (which has no similarity to real life APHE) acts as a primitive HEAT warhead though it is not described as such. (The way it is described would generally only succeed in shooting shrapnel in the face of your own troops). Simply rename that the primitive HEAT, no need to change performance.

I'd hazard the real option C is frost giants going around smacking Arstotzka for being salty, given that there's only able to be arguements for either options A or B

Anyway, I can stand for either option, though B offers more consistency between RL and the game (And I'm not saying this just because our tanks will get more dangerous thanks to that as well, no siree >.>). Though given that slat armour isn't particularly effective against cannon shots given the fuze is at the back of the round, not the front.

[Kot]

This would improve moskurg anti-armor performance considerably.

Would it though? HEAT isin't some kind of wonder warhead, AP and APHE are considerably better at actual penetration and damage usually (and Breaker guns have no trouble doing that apparently) the HEAT just doesn't rely on muzzle velocity so much and don't lose penetration capability over distance, it relies on size of charge more, and Breaker caliber is smaller than Hippo and Rhino. The only true change would be Breaker cannon, as it's ~9cm big artillery gun.

I'm under the impression that HEAT involve a metal layer inside the shaped charge to punch through the armor.

So does shaped charge, usually.

Disadvantages: Rewards Arstotzka for being salty about a game (Speaking up is fine. Several pages of whining about it is not)

We wouldn't whine for several pages if we weren't ignored, insulted (it's fine when it's all a joke for both sides) and threatened (like, even now) for bringing up a problem.

[Taricus]

The thing is though is that it isn't a problem.

[Kot]

The thing is though is that it isn't a problem.

It is, considering the whole game is at least mildly realistic and suddenly magic weapons pop up.

[Taricus]

Keyword being mildly.

[Kot]

Keyword being mildly.

Pre-WWII recoiless guns penetrating medium armor with APHE aren't mildly realistic, they are not realistic at all, as they defy the laws of physics.
Your idea of powered exoskeleton that is going on right now in your thread is better, even if it's like at least 60 or rather 80 years ahead.

[LordSlowpoke]

a backwards island in the middle of nowhere fielding tanks in 1915 is realistic?

both sides not running out of manpower after 20 years of brutally slaughtering one another is realistic?

i can go on

[Kot]

a backwards island in the middle of nowhere fielding tanks in 1915 is realistic?

both sides not running out of manpower after 20 years of brutally slaughtering one another is realistic?

i can go on

Fielding tanks doesn't break laws of physics, and while not running out of manpower may, it's for mutual fun of both sides.
One side having a magic weapon that the other can at best suck on isin't.