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[Ze_king]

Updated Important stuff: 21:00 23 July

Now the general idea is to make a fortress survive while being run by the community in a beaucratic way. People who sign up (known as citizens) will have to try to have the fortress run in the way that suits them (their character). This is not always the same, person to person and will in time create disagreements. This will provide the challenge to see if a fortress can survive in the lovely mess that we call democracy.

Citizen Features

Each person(citizen will have the power to (unless the government decrees otherwise)
- Stand for or vote in Mayorial elections
- Be appointed to an Office by the Mayor
- Try to influence what happens by debate, strike, or just good old rioting

You will have to
- React to different situations and deal with.... (Did Urist McMayor ban exports of cheese and you happen to be a cheese exporter?)
- Give out Orders or Actions to influence the game directly.

Orders and Actions

Orders/Actions
- Orders are things giving out by the officials (Mayor, Architect, COG) which influence the game directly.
- The orders can be for things like: Extending a factory block, mandating items, banning exports, using the military to attack enemies, removing civil rights and more
- Actions are things done by any player. They too influence the game, however can be stopped by certain things.
- Actions can consist of things like: Striking, sabotage, declaring support, voting, joining military, desertion, moving rooms and more.

Officials
There are three different official currently they are:

Mayor (leader of the fortress)
Architect (who outlines the looks of the fortress)
Captain of the Guard (outlines the training sched, squad types, uniform etc)

The officials are the people that run the fortress, they will be giving out the orders. They have almost absolute power, but like in real life, if they abuse it the people will rise.
It is the officials job to direct the fortress to what it should do/have: Produce, look like, export, military strategy, laws, rights

When you sign up

Each person who signs up will be given a random dwarf and his/her job, and some info about them. You must roleplay this person (to whatever extend you wish). And give out Orders or Actions to what they would really do.

Roleplayer Information

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

1. How to give out Orders/Actions
- When you give out an Order or an Action you must post it in the thread, with the word Order and Action with it. E.G. My Orders for this month are to construct a mason workshop in a 10x10 falicatate a workshop and a rawmaterials stockpile. All Orders and Actions must be done by Friday 8pm.

2. Standing for election and voting
Starts after the Winter update has been released and lasts until Tuesday. There will be a poll sent to each citizen sometime after noon on the monday (to allow candidates to put out their election posters and voters to decide who to vote for). The polls close at 22:00 GMT on Tuesday. Where I will annouce the Winner. Everyone can vote currently - However the Officals may change this.

3. Reports
- Each report will be done for each season. They will posted on to the thread on each Sunday.

4. Will the roleplayers be attached to dwarves?
- They will be permanently be attached to a dwarf, so they lose their chance are becoming reelected if they die. This will also open up opportunities for things to do when you are a normal citizen, e.g voting.
This will also allow for things like strikes and other actions during the fortress life. (more above)

5.  Terms
- Terms will last 1 year, split into 4 seasons, which is 4 RL weeks and 4 times when you can give Orders/Actions.

That is it for now.  Feel free to post ideas solutions and any potential problems.

[Gwolfski]

ptw. would be interseted in architect

[Ze_king]

ptw. would be interseted in architect

Hello. Thanks for your interest. If you want me to I could put you down as the first architect guy

[DVNO]

I can see a couple ways of doing this;

You can have it be complete anarchic democracy, and set every titled position to [elected] in the raws of your civ so a random rotation of people are in these roles, or every noble role. If any of the sub positions under overseer are changed, just notify everyone  in the changes in status, but if the overseer changes, stop the game and exchange saves with the new overseer.

This would probably get complicated with Dwarves that are unclaimed so I would set migration to zero and spawn in migrants with DFhack only when a forum user wants to join as a dorf. This way no dwarf can be elected that isn't attached to a player.

Another fun social experiment is to have the Architect and the Captain be elected by the Mayor, but the Mayor be elected yearly by an rl poll on the thread. And then the overseer plays the role of the unbiased will of the fort. So, Let's say for example the players who are masons wanted more space for masonry workshops, but the architect gave valuable time and resources to a cheesemaking wing of the fort.

uh oh!

To put pressure on the architect, the masons form a 'Mason's Workers Bloc' that'll withhold votes for the Mayor's re-election until the Architect builds a masonry factory. Which upsets the cheeses makers and their half finished project and whips them up into a bloc ... politics are !!fun!!     

[Ze_king]

I can see a couple ways of doing this;

You can have it be complete anarchic democracy, and set every titled position to [elected] in the raws of your civ so a random rotation of people are in these roles, or every noble role. If any of the sub positions under overseer are changed, just notify everyone  in the changes in status, but if the overseer changes, stop the game and exchange saves with the new overseer.
     

This seems interesting but it is not really what I am getting at, I would rather have real people or myself choose the Mayor (atleast) or  every position (at most). This will stop Urist McLucky getting 5 terms in office (or more likely, Urist McLucky and Urist McSlightly-Less-Lucky playing the terms like tennis) and would mean that people who are inactive also dont get chosen. The only problem with the final point is, that this is supposed to be a small (atleast at first) story from the eyes of the Overseer (who is basically a Dwarven Mycroft Holmes - or simply guy who organises the actual work) so this change would put an end to my involvement.

Another fun social experiment is to have the Architect and the Captain be elected by the Mayor, but the Mayor be elected yearly by an rl poll on the thread. And then the overseer plays the role of the unbiased will of the fort. So, Let's say for example the players who are masons wanted more space for masonry workshops, but the architect gave valuable time and resources to a cheesemaking wing of the fort.
 

Now this sounds really interesting. It could make for some really interesting governments, as Mayor tries to control the fortress, through these 2+ people, who may or may not be entirely willing to cooperate.
The only problem I see is that the thread could become clogged with mini debates on whether we should churn out cups or cheese. However I do not thing this will ever happen and if I does I could put restrictions on it.
Another problem I could see is that the Architect could just outright force the Mayor out of office, making him a bit too politically overpowered. e.g just refuses to build masons workshops, because Urist McMayor will get kicked out and he will not have much damage done to him, especially if he is working with Urist McNextPopularcandidate, meaning he retain his position.
This could be rectified by having term limits and by allowing the population to vote out bad official. What do you guys think of this

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To put pressure on the architect, the masons form a 'Mason's Workers Bloc' that'll withhold votes for the Mayor's re-election until the Architect builds a masonry factory. Which upsets the cheeses makers and their half finished project and whips them up into a bloc ... politics are !!fun!!     

This sounds amazing, if could also have affects ingame. If there is a way to lower the happiness of dwarves X,Y,Z (dfhack??) , it could give a potential for a revolt
 

[DVNO]

The only problem I see is that the thread could become clogged with mini debates on whether we should churn out cups or cheese.

Well, that's more the challenge of the democratic process then the game rule's faults, isn't it? I think the best way to combat it is to maintain a strict update schedule, that doesn't stop for anyone or any special interest. The train keeps on movin, and if you cannot come to a conclusion? Fine, inaction is your decision.   

The goal proposed here is to see if random players can work together in a bureaucratic mess and not raze a fort down in the process, yes? I think inaction should be a significant challenge in that. maybe the most difficult challenge.

EDIT: Really? No one else wants to chip in and try this? Or even offer suggestions? Man, this board has been going slow in the past months.   

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To put pressure on the architect, the masons form a 'Mason's Workers Bloc' that'll withhold votes for the Mayor's re-election until the Architect builds a masonry factory. Which upsets the cheeses makers and their half finished project and whips them up into a bloc ... politics are !!fun!!     

This sounds amazing, if could also have effects ingame. If there is a way to lower the happiness of dwarves X,Y,Z (dfhack??) , it could give a potential for a revolt
 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Editing happiness has gotten tricky since 40.24, but DFhack gui/gm-editor can put dwarves in a variety of special moods. Berserk Rage sounds pretty riot-y to me.

[DVNO]

-snip-

(double post)

[Ze_king]

Well, that's more the challenge of the democratic process then the game rule's faults, isn't it? I think the best way to combat it is to maintain a strict update schedule, that doesn't stop for anyone or any special interest. The train keeps on movin, and if you cannot come to a conclusion? Fine, inaction is your decision.   

The goal proposed here is to see if random players can work together in a bureaucratic mess and not raze a fort down in the process, yes? I think inaction should be a significant challenge in that. maybe the most difficult challenge.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

To put pressure on the architect, the masons form a 'Mason's Workers Bloc' that'll withhold votes for the Mayor's re-election until the Architect builds a masonry factory. Which upsets the cheeses makers and their half finished project and whips them up into a bloc ... politics are !!fun!!     

This sounds amazing, if could also have effects ingame. If there is a way to lower the happiness of dwarves X,Y,Z (dfhack??) , it could give a potential for a revolt
 

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Editing happiness has gotten tricky since 40.24, but DFhack gui/gm-editor can put dwarves in a variety of special moods. Berserk Rage sounds pretty riot-y to me.

I see what you mean and I must say that I agree. This leaves me to think of an upload schedule. I think

Mon-Thurs: Deliberation, debate, Orders assigning for the upcoming season.

Fri: Final day for orders, after 8pm GMT (is that too early?)  - the time where the dwarvern Gov't shuts shop - orders cannot be given out and the action for each department defaults to it previous one, whether it was given out during the Mon-Thur period or the previous week.

Saturday: Playing out of the season. I take all the orders and actions into account and enact them in the game. I will then start writing the update.

Sunday: I will complete the update (if needed) and upload it to the forums.

Election Season: Starts after the Winter update has been released and lasts until Tuesday. There will be a poll sent to each citizen sometime after noon on the monday (to allow candidates to put out their election posters and voters to decide who to vote for). The polls close at 22:00 GMT on Tuesday. Where I will annouce the Winner.

The problem (that I can see) with this update schedule is that my weekends must not be interupted. However Sat and Sun are rarely both interupted at the same time - unless I have an reenactment, but they are few and far between currently.

EDIT: Really? No one else wants to chip in and try this? Or even offer suggestions? Man, this board has been going slow in the past months.   

I was suprised, I thought this would be quite intriguing for the DF community. However I am sure interest will pick up.
I am also going to post this on the Total War Centre forums. They have a thriving AAR/story community there and I am sure there will be veterans of Interactive storys (and maybe even DF too, it was where I found out about DF around 2 years ago), who too can provide me with advice.

[Ze_king]

Sorry for double post. But I updated the top thread, should make it easier to read and more informative.

[smakemupagus]

Perhaps, the thread's title isn't the best advertisement?  Either way i bet you'll get more interest once you start (and maybe pictures) since it's a neat idea. 

[Ze_king]

Perhaps, the thread's title isn't the best advertisement?  Either way i bet you'll get more interest once you start (and maybe pictures) since it's a neat idea. 

I've taken your advice. I wont be able to do much currently, as I am in the Isle of Wight. However I leave on Sunday which means I will be able get the ball rolling then, by giving background on the world and the Overseer.

The new post is here. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=152182.0

[Evaris]

ptw incase this thread becomes active again for whatever reason.