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[itisnotlogical]

I've been thinking a lot about race issues lately, with all the race-related shootings and violence in the (American) media lately. As always, I've come to the conclusion that racism will always be around...

...But this time, I thought about ways to end racism, not as in so socially/culturally unacceptable that nobody is racist anymore, I mean literally impossible. The only way I can see such a thing happening is if the human race genetically homogenizes until we're all more or less similar, with no real outliers or stand-out characteristics between any two humans. Is it possible that this can happen, given an infinite amount of time and assuming the human race doesn't go extinct and remains confined to Earth?

[NullForceOmega]

Random mutation makes this hypothesis moot.  That said, as humanity approaches a homogenous state, the variances we pick up on will be more minor and more glaring, so no, this will not end racism.

The only way this idea can even function is for every human to be clones of one idealized human, and minor variation will still occur and become cause for 'racism'.

[da_nang]

Spoiler: So basically... (click to show/hide)

[Sheb]

Racism doesnt really need physical differences to latch on. Jews dont really have a distinct look, and it never stopped the antisemites.

[LordBucket]

Will humans homogenize?

Physically? Unlikely. I expect the reverse, actually. As genetics and cybernetics improve, it seems likely to me that people will diversify more. Not everyone is going to want a prehensile tail, but some people will. Not everyone will want to be a brain in a jar. But some people will. Technology isgoing to grant tremendous morphological freedom, and I expect that people will express their preferences very differently.

thinking a lot about race issues lately

...But this time, I thought about ways to end racism

Racism isn't bad. Nor is it unique. It's utterly unimportant and completely arbitrary that our culture cares about it right now.

Racism is simply having preference in regards to race. There's nothing wrong with having preference. It's ok to have preferences. If you prefer chocolate ice cream over orange sherbet, there's nothing morally improper about that, and it would be silly to say that there is. Having preferences for people is no different.

Let's say you like almonds but you don't like peanuts. Therefore you eat almonds and you don't eat peanut. Is that wrong? Is the person who only likes almonds "evil?" No, of course not. He simply has a preference, and chooses to act on it.

Now let's take a stereotypical white guy who only dates asian girls. That's racism. But so what? He only likes asian girls, so he only dates asian girls.There's no problem here. Just like the guy who only eats almonds and not peanuts, there's nothing wrong with this. And again, it's completely an arbitrary and recent, purely local cultural phenomenon that people care about having preference for race.

For example, let's say you're a guy, and you're only attracted to females, and therefore you don't date guys, and you do date girls. That's having a preference based on gender, and acting on it. Is that wrong? Of course not. Let's say you're christian, and only want to associate with other christians. So having that preference, you choose to only associate with other christians, and you make a point of avoiding satanists. That is having a preference based on religion, and acting on it. Is it wrong? Of course not. Let's say you're a short woman and you've suffered all your life for being short, and you don't want your children to have the same problem, so you choose to have children with a tall man so that he can give his genes and hopefully have tall children. That's having a preference for height, and acting on it. IS that wrong? Again, no.

So clearly having preferences for people is ok. Go down the list, and you'll find all sorts of common sense examples of having and acting on preference for certain traits among people, that pretty much everyone will agree is ok.

But now plug race into any of those scenarios, and for some reason people freak out. Guy says he's only going to date, hang out with, or have children with white people, suddenly doing exactly the same thing based on this arbitrary other criteria, and people accuse him of being evil, immoral filth. Why? It's ok to have preference for anything else. What's so special about race that you're evil if you have a preference for it? Nothing is special about it. It's a completely arbitrary and recent cultural convention of no importance. Just like it's fashionable for women to have long hair and wear heels. If you want to do those things, that's fine. But attaching moral significance to it is silly.


The thing that is the "bad" that people tend to associate with racism is hurting people. If you don't like samoans, so you you don't hang out with samoans, that's ok. But if you don't like samoans so you beat them up on weekends...that's not ok.

But beating people up isn't ok regardlessof whether it's motivated by race. If you beat somebody up for being samoan, that's not ok. But if you beat them up for taking the last mint from the candy bowl, that's also not ok. Race has nothing to do with it. It's the beating up the guy that's the not ok part. Racism is not bad. Hurting people is bad.

So my advice for the whole racism thing is to just get over it. Like what you like and don't worry too much about what other people like.

[Frumple]

... @OP, genetically, we're already homogenized to a pretty ridiculous degree. Forget the exact percentage, but it's well into the upper nineties from what I recall -- the genetic difference between one human and the next is not even remotely substantial. Barring outlier mutations, there already aren't really standout differences between one human and the next, much as bigots would like to say otherwise.

Phenotypic homogeneity is more what you'd be looking for, heh. And, as noted, still wouldn't end the problem of the specific form of bigotry that is racism. Where traits don't exist to other and ostracize, humans create them. Physical -- to an extent, even behavioral -- homogeneity won't stop that. What it would take to fully stamp that out is a fairly radical shift in human culture and psychology/neurology. We've been working on the former for several decades now, and is an ongoing process. The latter, we, uh. Probably won't meaningfully consider, and are likely several decades out from being technologically capable of.

[Neonivek]

Racism is simply having preference in regards to race. There's nothing wrong with having preference. It's ok to have preferences. If you prefer chocolate ice cream over orange sherbet, there's nothing morally improper about that, and it would be silly to say that there is. Having preferences for people is no different

I go by a different definition then that. Mostly because other then systematic racism (where mass preference can create this situation), preference isn't a judgment.

--

As for ending Racism... HA!

You forget that most of the races that people use today are completely 100% made up... and even in their extremely loose definition people often don't know what groups fall under it and even when they do they don't always fall under the protections and privileges of that group.

And don't forget the age old "Brock is Black"

[LordBucket]

other then systematic racism (where mass preference can create this situation), preference isn't a judgment.

I don't follow. What do you mean?

[Neonivek]

other then systematic racism (where mass preference can create this situation), preference isn't a judgment.

I don't follow. What do you mean?

What does preferring white people say about a white person beyond you prefer to be around them?

[LordBucket]

What does preferring white people say about a white person beyond you prefer to be around them?

You tell me. I was asking you to clarify what you said. I might not answer the above in the same way you would.

[Neonivek]

I am saying that preference isn't racism because there is nothing there to judge.

[LordBucket]

I am saying that preference isn't racism because there is nothing there to judge.

So if Bob doesn't like blacks, and therefore doesn't associate with them, that's not racism? Let's say he goes to a bar. Bartender is black. He would prefer to not be served by a black man, so he leaves and finds another bar.

That's not racist? Really?

[Sheb]

Well, youre mixing various meaning of preferences. Only dating blacks is okay, refusing to serve blacks is not. One is a private matter, the other is not.

[Loud Whispers]

I've been thinking a lot about race issues lately, with all the race-related shootings and violence in the (American) media lately. As always, I've come to the conclusion that racism will always be around...
...But this time, I thought about ways to end racism, not as in so socially/culturally unacceptable that nobody is racist anymore, I mean literally impossible. The only way I can see such a thing happening is if the human race genetically homogenizes until we're all more or less similar, with no real outliers or stand-out characteristics between any two humans. Is it possible that this can happen, given an infinite amount of time and assuming the human race doesn't go extinct and remains confined to Earth?

Only if you end sexual selection pressures; if anything, I suspect we will not see a new homogenized race, we will see the old races die out/be assimilated and replaced by new admixtures, new races. The people of today are not the same as the ones of yesteryear, and globalization will have accelerated this process gorillion fold.

[LordBucket]

Well, youre mixing various meaning of preferences. Only dating blacks is okay, refusing to serve blacks is not. One is a private matter, the other is not.

1) What "various meanings" of preference are you referring to?

2) In my example, Bob was not refusing to serve blacks. He was leaving a bar because the bartender was black. He was refusing to be served by one.

3) Not sure what you mean by "private matter" in this context. Let's work with an example. Imagine that Alice is white. She says "I don't like black guys. They're icky. I refuse to date them." The following day, a black guy asks her out. She declines, and the reason for her declining is that he is black and she has chosen to not date black guys. Are you saying that she's not a racist, because this is a "private matter?" Or are you saying that yes she's a racist...but it's ok, because the venue of her actions is "private?"