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[Albedo]

So, there are at least 6 prime military skills that any "military" immigrant has and seem to help build a reliable military dwarf...

• X-Weapon (Axe, Hammer, Spear, whatever)
  
  • Dodge
  • Shield User
    
  • Armour User
  • Discipline
    
  • Observation
  ...and that doesn't include the misc. Fighter/Striker/Wrestler skills.
  
  But at Embark you only have 10 skill levels to choose, so which ones to take, and how much?
  
  I'm tempted to take the ones that are harder to train, maybe Dodge, Observation, Discipline, with a nod to the weapon itself, and hope for the best with the rest. Also I;d think emphasizing Dodge over Armour/Shield is better, since often militia doesn't have time to "gear up" when there's an emergency. But I just don't know.
  
  (If going X-Bow, I'd think 5 Levels of X-Bow, 5 of Dodge, and trust nothing gets within melee range - or no?)
  
  Any input, with reasoning (not guesswork - I can do that!) appreciated.

[Dragoon508]

Teacher is a good one to take as it lets you train your military a bit faster.

But probably want to do weapon, armor, dicipline, and teacher at the start. Fighter and striker are really easy to train. Observation is only useful if you are learning so it is more important for when others show up to have.

[Albedo]

Observation is only useful if you are learning so it is more important for when others show up to have.

Yeah, that's not how I understood Observer to work. (Could you be thinking of "Student"?)

I thought Observer was the ability to spot Ambushers, Thieves and other skulkers at (greater) distance, and also helps in general combat.

Or does it now help both?

[Dragoon508]

Your right, observer is about spotting ambushers. However still not too important on a starting military dwarf.  You can train it by having a dwarf watch others spar which is why I got it confused for a moment.

If you are starting in a !!FUN!! embark then you don't have to worry too much about ambushes. You would want higher skills in other areas first

[PatrikLundell]

I'd advice against X-bow for several reasons:
- They're hard to control (sneaking off to train when they have to move two steps to get into firing range, etc.).
- They're suicidal, i.e. charging with the X-bow as a club when out of ammo (which happens fast, given that they won't pick up much ammo).
- They're lousy at killing. Those who use them let the bolts soften the targets up so the melee crew mainly have to mop up. The X-bowdwarves can mop up with their X-bow hammering, but only provided there aren't any non disabled enemies left.
- They're suicidal (again) in that they readily try to climb down a wall to get into firing range of enemies within sight but not yet within range, rather than wait for the enemy to come into range.
- The ammo handling is buggy, making concurrent allocation of war and training ammo a lottery (with about the same chances of winning).

Thus, if I was to use embark points for military training, I'd take something that's of immediate use, and if the embark is hostile enough to require that I'd consider armor as well.

[angelious]

as for weapon skills...i guess you should go axe dorf. that way your military commander can act as a wood cutter while you wait to properly kickstart your military with migrants.


before that he is sorta deadweight for the rest of them...




i myself ofcourse usually go silver hammer dorf...its a tradition for me in df

[Inevitability]

If I understand correctly, there are certain problems in having a military dwarf with woodcutting, mining or hunting enabled.
These jobs are unique in the way that they come with hidden uniforms which conflict with any uniform that is assigned to him through the military menu.
A woodcutter who is also an axedwarf needs two axes: whenever his squad is activated or deactivated he will drop his axe and pick up the other one.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=1451

[Dragoon508]

For weapon skills I would suggest a sword dwarf. In the fact that he can to stabs and slashes which are useful in facing more enemies. However if you are undead heavy then go for a Mace. Apparently Maces are better to mangle with while hammers do more damage.

[angelious]

For weapon skills I would suggest a sword dwarf. In the fact that he can to stabs and slashes which are useful in facing more enemies. However if you are undead heavy then go for a Mace. Apparently Maces are better to mangle with while hammers do more damage.

hammer is good combo for armored enemies while still having blunt.


mace is better for bludgeoning.



imo. hammers and slashes are the best weapons in the game.

[Niddhoger]

Silver war-hammers are the best thing you can use against armored opponents, easily crushing a helmet into someone's skull.  Some rough testing on the wiki seems to indicate that silver warhammers are un-par with ADAMANTINE axes, at least against unarmored opponents.  Ofc... with the right grooming and micromanagement of stocks, you can get platinum warhammers... which would be even deadlier due to DF's simplistic physics.  In fact, if I start in a !FUN! embark I'll often take either tetra or galena with me.  I'll melt them down for the silver, and make a squad of silver hammer-dorfs with it.  Iron is 24 points of 4 bars and steel includes taking flux and far more fuel per bar... and is STILL weaker than those silver hammers. 

That being said, armor user and shield are the two most important ones to take- far more than taking ranks in weapon skills.  First, without armor user you can't give your dorfs a full suit of metal armor without forcing them to crawl across the battlefield before passing out from exertion.  Also, shields are overpowered and the single best thing you can give a dorf to keep him alive.  Masterwork weapons bring with them a x2 multiplier to attack as well to help compensate for lower attack skills at first.  Bring your proficient weaponsmith that loves bronze/silver/iron/steel (or w/e specific weapon you want to make) and have him churn out/recycle metal until you get those masterworks.  Keep in mind, a dorf that loses an arm or eye will never recover outside of lycantrhopy.  A legendary axelord with only one arm and impaired grasp in the other trying to gauge depth-perception with a single eye is a pathetic thing.  Dorfs with low armor skill can still safely equip helmet/boots/gloves out of metal with bone/leather for the rest.  Shields should never be made of anything but wood (featherwood and willow preferred).  Yes, copper shields bash for more damage.  However, your dorf shouldn't be bashing with his shield.  He should be bashing with his hammer.  In the meantime, those heavy copper shields can and will slow him down/wear him out quicker. 

I usually do a 2/5/3 split with weaponskill/armor/shield if I expect early trouble.  This ensures they pick up the right weapon and have enough armor-user to comfortable put on a metal breastplate and greaves on top of the other metal equipment.  Top off the uniform with at least one cloak for good measure. 

[NullForceOmega]

Weapon skill at 5, teacher skill at 5, two dwarves, set to train, legendaries in 6-9 months.

[Albedo]

Shields should never be made of anything but wood (featherwood and willow preferred)...

 had heard that wooden were the new "best".  But I was mildly surprised to find that shields could now also be made of leather - how do those rate in the mix? Between wood and metal?

Weapon skill at 5, teacher skill at 5, two dwarves, set to train, legendaries in 6-9 months.

And what's the approx timeline without Teacher?

[PatrikLundell]

Unless you use shields for bashing (which is an emergency action anyway), the only important shield characteristic (beside quality) is weight, so it should be made out of the lightest material available (hence featherwood). I don't know how much a leather shield weighs, but my guess is that they're within the wooden range (ought to be lighter than e.g. bloodthorn).

[Albedo]

Copy that, thx!

(That raises a line of question and discussion, but OT - will start a new thread for that - http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=151127.0)

So, high Armour/Shield for immediate military, more critical than Dodger or even the weapon-skill itself. Hmmm...


(Still waiting on how much faster Teacher 5 helps things along, whether a major difference or just a bit.)

[NullForceOmega]

It is literally THE defining skill for military training, it accelerates the gain of ALL military skills by a huge factor.  I can embark with two soldiers with minimal weapon, armor user, shield etc. and so long as they have 5 points in teacher, they will achieve legendary in two-three seasons.  Without teacher the gains are still good, but dwarves level at different rates, so your recruits end up standing around doing personal drills for much longer periods of time.  Teacher allows for demonstrations to actually have an effect on experience gain and keeps the soldiers at a more even overall level, ensuring more time is spent sparring for maximum increases.