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Author Topic: Range of neighbors and possible siegers  (Read 3301 times)

mtrenal

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Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« on: May 30, 2015, 09:39:28 pm »

I can't seem to find anywhere in the wiki how close you need to be to, for example, a goblin fortress in order to attract sieges from them. I used to know, but I forget. Is it 6 tiles? 12 tiles?
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Dragoon508

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2015, 11:27:55 pm »

You can see the neighboring civs when you enbark by hitting tab. This will show you your neighbors.
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Putnam

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2015, 12:07:26 am »

You do not need to be all that close. They move very quickly across the map.

Broseph Stalin

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2015, 06:29:22 pm »

You can look at your neighbors before you embark but sieges have gotten pretty rare now that they don't just pop up.

Niddhoger

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2015, 12:37:08 am »

The problem in the new version is that sieges must actually path through the world.  So even if you are within 20 tiles and the goblins appear in your neighbour screen, if they have to path around a bay, lake, inland sea, or mountain range it can increase their actual distance from you too much.  Also, if there are closer targets they'll likely attack them first.  Why hike around that lake to attack a dirty dwarven hovel that has no wealth and possibly drunken axelords behind thick walls when they can just go next door to raid a (mostly) defenseless human town. 

The other half of this is that sieges now come from actual historical figures.  Due to recent wars/beast attacks, your nearest goblin outpost could have too little population to field proper and/or regular invasions.  The invaders aren't just magically generated like your hard coded waves, and must leave an actual goblin site to path to your fort.  If you poke around in legends (I strongly recommend legends viewer), you can find the goblin capital with THOUSANDS of little sadists ready to play.  Then you just pop down next to it and you'll virtually never run out of goblinite. 
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Putnam

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2015, 01:29:21 am »

That is also not really a problem unless you very specifically try to embark near lakes or mountains. Seriously, it takes less than 6 in-game minutes to go across an entire large world map from my recent calculations.

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2015, 02:44:36 am »

Seriously, it takes less than 6 in-game minutes to go across an entire large world map from my recent calculations.

I find that number difficult to believe.  Care to share your math?
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Putnam

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2015, 02:54:18 am »

...6 gameplay minutes, sorry, about an in-game month is what I meant. Or maybe I did my math wrong and wanted 4 months instead of 4 weeks. Either way, they take about 50 ticks (10 in-game minutes) to cross an entire world tile, so actually less than 15 in-game days to cross the entire world, heh, way less than I thought. I got this by making a script to track army movement across the map and found, to my surprise, that it's hilariously fast.

Eldin00

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2015, 02:42:16 pm »

The issue with mountains/lakes/oceans isn't the extra travel time so much as that they don't seem to consider sending an army at all if the path they have to take is longer than 12 world tiles, and they seem to favor sites with a shorter path over those with a longer one.
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Saiko Kila

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2015, 05:00:57 pm »

The problem in the new version is that sieges must actually path through the world.  So even if you are within 20 tiles and the goblins appear in your neighbour screen, if they have to path around a bay, lake, inland sea, or mountain range it can increase their actual distance from you too much.

I think the "show you neighbour" algorithm already takes care of pathing, no? When I look for neighbours on embark screen, the lakes or bays between me and a 'enemy source' (tower) decrease range. In other words the imagined influence sphere depends heavily on natural barriers. Though I tried it only with towers, i.e. undead. Maybe goblins work differently.
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Albedo

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2015, 05:23:11 pm »

As I understand it, it's not about the path, it's about what lies between them and you.

If other targets are conveniently in the way, they may never make it to you, despite any path.
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Putnam

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2015, 05:53:26 pm »

As I understand it, I've never heard anything like that.

melomel

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2015, 09:02:57 am »

My crappy antique laptop does not like vanilla 40.24 at all; all my unmodded forts meet FPS death within the first 2-3 years.  (Current fort has had buttloads of creatures/trees/plants stripped out of the raws; it seems to help a bit.)

So far, embarking within range of a tower seems to ensure THE DEAD WALK by year 2; kobolds have been showing up, as well.

Generally speaking, if you see a civ as a neighbor in your embark screen, it should siege/trade with you.
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lkjggfs

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2015, 03:06:29 pm »

Is there anyway, after embarking, to see your neighbors? I've tried the civilization screen but I can't see any and I foolishly didn't look when I embarked.
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Albedo

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Re: Range of neighbors and possible siegers
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2015, 08:46:51 pm »

Once the game starts, you don't see neighbors until they make contact with you (one way or another).

But, if you make a copy of the game, you can "abandon fort" in the copy, and then "Start Playing" on the same map and move the embark cursor to ~just next~ to where you were - you'll have the same neighbors listed. Delete that copy, go back to the original, and carry on.
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