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[Egan_BW]

Uh... no. They are definitely doing lots of cool things with WotC and did a bunch of cool things with XCOM 2.

Like being the only other game to finally steal the nemesis system from Mordor. Zeus, I wish more games would steal that.

[Neonivek]

Like being the only other game to finally steal the nemesis system from Mordor. Zeus, I wish more games would steal that.

Diablo 3 did it first.

Enemies getting stronger and gaining abilities as the game goes on is much older than Shadow of Mordor, as is doing it with named enemies. It is HOW Shadow of Mordor done it that is unique because it was more than just being stronger and getting new abilities.

Something that this game isn't following suit but is more than happy to take credit for.

[ductape]

Hey so I only have XCOM: Enemy Unknown, I never got around to playing it. Should I play it now or should I just get XCOM 2? I dont have a lot of time to play games.

[Neonivek]

Hey so I only have XCOM: Enemy Unknown, I never got around to playing it. Should I play it now or should I just get XCOM 2? I dont have a lot of time to play games.

That is a pretty tough choice... Wait for a sale.

The part of Enemy Within I really don't like are some of the extra missions they added (Two of them in fact...), but its other features are excellent and comes with a much better Long War mod overall. Enemy Within drastically changes your experience as it introduces elements into every single part of the game. The Exalt mechanics are, lousy but they are a minor part of the game.

(Don't bother with Slingshot)

Xcom 2 will probably make you feel like it is better at first, for some reason it is as you continue playing it that its other flaws become apparent ending with a sort of mixed feeling overall as to which is better. As well its DLC is.. well... to put it politely bad. This current unreleased DLC is the only thing approaching quality, but is a huge step backwards in other aspects (Basically it is "What if Xcom were minor characters in their own game?")

Yeah I am not shy to say it the Xcom 2 DLC currently is all bad. Alien Rulers (which is cooler in concept then execution), and Shion's Last Gift (Which is... one decent overly-tough mission for a minor reward). You will probably get Alien Rulers just because it is somewhat broken.

---

Or rather it is impossible to tell because Xcom 2 is two steps forward, two steps back. It is like a Harvest Moon Sequel.

MAYBE, mind you, I am entirely wrong and this new Expansion is EXACTLY what Xcom 2 needed and will address all the problems with the game... and the mechanics will be less obnoxious, and they won't really kick Xcom off their pedestal. It is in the works and we only know so much.

[Chiefwaffles]

Firaxis is usually pretty good with sales and I believe the summer sale is on the 22nd, so I'd wait for that.

The first XCOM is a great game in its own right and I'd recommend it, but it's definitely not an essential experience for XCOM 2 in any way. I'd also recommend Enemy Within, but right now when not on sale (and it usually is) it's $30. EW adds a lot to the game and is definitely worth it. Slingshot is pretty fun if you already have it, but I wouldn't recommend buying it by itself.

XCOM 2 is, like I said, straight-up better than XCOM 1. But I'd definitely imagine that you could still have fun with XCOM 1 after playing XCOM 2. In terms of DLCs:
Shen's Last Gift adds a pretty fun (but long) mission and SPARKs, which are basically a new kind of class that you can build. If you do get it, though, I'd get a mod that buffs SPARKs. Or wait until War of the Chosen which is buffing SPARKs anyways.
I would not recommend Alien Rulers for someone new to the series. It just adds very large amounts of difficulty that many (including me) consider unfun.
Anarchy's Children is okay, I guess? It's entirely cosmetic, so just look at the screenshots and decide if you want it based on that.

[Neonivek]

I will say that in spite of me saying Xcom 2 is equal to Xcom 1 it does have another quality.

The Monster Rancher 3 effect, OR "The Sims 3 effect".

After you play Xcom 2 you generally won't be able to play the first one (mostly because of the concealment mechanics IMO).

(Monster Rancher 3 was worse then Monster Rancher 2... But its encyclopedia means you don't have to hunt for CDs everytime you want a monster. It made playing the previous game impossible. The Sims 3's Open World Effect made The Sims 2 nearly impossible to play)

It just adds very large amounts of difficulty that many (including me) consider unfun

Even if you love difficulty stay away. The way it is difficult is unfun and you typically are meant to cheese the fights.

They are... Fixing it, so it might be better in the future.

---

Also I am probably being overly negative because I was criticized for having an opinion that wasn't gleeful glib optimism about the next Xcom 2 expansion. So I might be overcompensating.

[nenjin]

Hey so I only have XCOM: Enemy Unknown, I never got around to playing it. Should I play it now or should I just get XCOM 2? I dont have a lot of time to play games.

I think XCOM EU is a good place to start with the series if you want to ease into it. It's not as feature rich as XCOM2, but feature rich often translates to "more difficult." There's more to factor in playing XCOM2 vs. XCOM, and if you've never played any of the games before, getting a feel for tech trees and how to play out a turn for max effectiveness is more daunting in XCOM2. There's just more going on and the enemy brings more to the table in XCOM2. XCOM:EU teaches you the core parts of how to play the game, which XCOM2 builds on. It's not rocket science, but if you don't want to be reloading your save a billion times per battle....

A lot of XCOM2's story is based on characters from XCOM:EU too, so the story is more effective and some references make more sense if you've gotten to know the characters from XCOM:EU first. (Or have fought some of the aliens from XCOM1 so you can appreciate how they've changed, as that's referenced a few times too.) XCOM1 is not required reading by any means, but some of the heart string tugging ra ra ra moments mean a little less when you're like "Am I supposed to know this guy?"

So I'd give it a shot. But don't dig into the Long War for XCOM IMO, Long War 2 and all the DLC in XCOM2 can keep you busy for much, much longer and brings a lot more features to the table.

[Digital Hellhound]

Re: XCom winning every battle and being too successful - I can tell you my first campaign in 2 was a disaster of constant defeat and withdrawal. If you lose missions, you fall behind in tech and resources, if you fall behind, you'll be outmatched by the new types of opposition and lose even more, if you keep losing, the Avatar Project gets completed and ADVENT wins forever.

My second campaign I followed a more optimal strategy and trounced ADVENT, but still. The only thing stopping your games from being grimdark meatgrinders is your skill, heh. I've also had plenty of Rogue One-ish pyrrhic victories where only one guy escapes, though yeah, that's a bit different.

[Teneb]

I don't mind the alien rulers too much, though admittedly I use a mod to tone down the reactions a bit (so they only react when I attack, and sometimes when I do stuff like overwatch).

One of these rulers even made for a pretty awesome mission. It was a VIP rescue mission, pretty standard stuff. Halfway through it, I meet the Berserker Queen, who knocks two of my five soldiers unconscious before running away. I have two of the other soldiers grab their KO'd comrades and pull out via the skyranger. Only a ranger left. Ranger goes to grab the VIP, but the timer runs out. Skyranger has to pull out and it'll take 8 turns for it to come back. Decide to skulljack an officer to trigger the first Codex while I'm there. Killed the Codex while endless reinforcements flooded the map and eventually pulled out with the VIP without either him or the ranger taking a single point of damage.

Wouldn't be nearly as awesome or hectic if not for the alien ruler.

[nenjin]

Re: XCom winning every battle and being too successful - I can tell you my first campaign in 2 was a disaster of constant defeat and withdrawal. If you lose missions, you fall behind in tech and resources, if you fall behind, you'll be outmatched by the new types of opposition and lose even more, if you keep losing, the Avatar Project gets completed and ADVENT wins forever.

This has always been my problem with XCOM overall. (Less the originals but it's still there.) Unless you're playing Ironman and agreeing to saddle up with that potential for failure, XCOM is a game about achieving best results. To me there's almost always tactically perfect solution for any battle for what I have. It's just a matter of finding it, in all the permutations of moves, cover spots, abilities and sheer RNG.

So I end up reloading a lot because that dude got revealed 1 square before I intended him to, the entire team misses all their shots in a round, the enemy decides to "scatter" in a way that is really problematic, you miss click and leave a dude out of cover....

There's just a million things that can go right or wrong. When I feel like I played as best as I could and circumstances still end up in injury or death, I'm willing to accept it. There's just generally always a way you could have done better or the RNG could have worked more with you, and it becomes a constant temptation to just "do it the right way."

Especially with Hacking for rewards. I've taken the time before to try every premutation of move/action combination to get that 21% chance to win an Advanced PCS. It's why my games end up taking forever. Or in LW2, having your whole force deployed when you FINALLY get that juicy 6 - 9 day infiltration to free a Scientist or Engineer and you're like "Man I really need that......*reloads*"

That's why I was kinda :\ on Alien Rulers. It takes this compulsion into overdrive. I remember painfully playing through one match against the Berzerker Queen because I needed her to reveal just at the right time, and take the right amount of overwatch shots, and not path here or go there and reveal more enemies.....so she didn't just start slaughtering soldiers wholesale.

The problem is that when you do all that.....you never lose and success isn't a matter of skill so much as proper planning and luck. Missions can still be scary and intimidating and surprise you, but you always have an out.

That said, I like that the game can be played different ways by everyone according to their taste. It's just so RNG happy that, if you are an optimizer, it eats up a lot of your time.

[Egan_BW]

If you'll admit that obsessively reloading your save is bad for your experience, maybe you'll be willing to stop reloading and have more fun.

[GiglameshDespair]

This has always been my problem with XCOM overall. (Less the originals but it's still there.) Unless you're playing Ironman and agreeing to saddle up with that potential for failure, XCOM is a game about achieving best results. To me there's almost always tactically perfect solution for any battle for what I have. It's just a matter of finding it, in all the permutations of moves, cover spots, abilities and sheer RNG.

So I end up reloading a lot because that dude got revealed 1 square before I intended him to, the entire team misses all their shots in a round, the enemy decides to "scatter" in a way that is really problematic, you miss click and leave a dude out of cover....

There's just a million things that can go right or wrong. When I feel like I played as best as I could and circumstances still end up in injury or death, I'm willing to accept it. There's just generally always a way you could have done better or the RNG could have worked more with you, and it becomes a constant temptation to just "do it the right way."

Especially with Hacking for rewards. I've taken the time before to try every premutation of move/action combination to get that 21% chance to win an Advanced PCS. It's why my games end up taking forever. Or in LW2, having your whole force deployed when you FINALLY get that juicy 6 - 9 day infiltration to free a Scientist or Engineer and you're like "Man I really need that......*reloads*"

That's why I was kinda :\ on Alien Rulers. It takes this compulsion into overdrive. I remember painfully playing through one match against the Berzerker Queen because I needed her to reveal just at the right time, and take the right amount of overwatch shots, and not path here or go there and reveal more enemies.....so she didn't just start slaughtering soldiers wholesale.

The problem is that when you do all that.....you never lose and success isn't a matter of skill so much as proper planning and luck. Missions can still be scary and intimidating and surprise you, but you always have an out.

That said, I like that the game can be played different ways by everyone according to their taste. It's just so RNG happy that, if you are an optimizer, it eats up a lot of your time.

I find xcom is a lot more fun if you don't savescum. If you're not going full ironman, maybe you can try saving at mission start and end, etc?
If you really mess up, you can try again, but without reloading every time you want to reposition your scout or your sniper misses.

I've enjoyed my encounters with the Alien Rulers, though I'm not against the changes they're getting. I wouldn't mind if the Chosen were like that, though. I find the way they change up the game is interesting and forces you to think carefully. The best moments I've had in XCOM 2 have been against Rulers. I do wish they healed a little bit between missions, though, so they didn't show up and just get capped in a single shot. There's mods for that, though.

Hey so I only have XCOM: Enemy Unknown, I never got around to playing it. Should I play it now or should I just get XCOM 2? I dont have a lot of time to play games.

I'd personally say if you had to choose between XCOM 1 and 2, play 2. The mechanics are better in general, and plot wise it's not essential as most of XCOM 1 is rendered irrelevant by canon (as you lost the first game instead of winning.).

Anarchy's children allows you to make some really ridiculous (or cool) looking soldiers, which is great, but as purely cosmetic it's not necessarily worth money.
Alien rulers is good. The weapons it adds are useful and cool. I like the bolt rifle the most because it's not necessarily 100% superior to the standard weapons.
Shen's last Gift is pretty neat, but I didn't tend to use the robots. That might change with their coming buff in the new dlc.

[nenjin]

If you'll admit that obsessively reloading your save is bad for your experience, maybe you'll be willing to stop reloading and have more fun.

To me there's not a ton of fun losing in XCOM. You get the angst of losing a special guy you spent a lot of time customizing, but otherwise it's a slow decline until you're out of troops, resources and all the alien tech is piling up on you. Sort of like DD, I don't like struggling against stacked odds where losses cost you x3 over due to the investment and leveling and yadda yadda. I do like the tactical decision making though. So while reloading saves does add a lot of time to gameplay and can get a little frustrating, on the other hand I have a pretty good sense of how a lot of mechanics can play out. Like, you learn that patrolling drones get randomized at each level start in their pathing, and one is pretty much guaranteed to head right toward your position and follow you for 2 to 3 turns before it gets retasked. How once patrols start walking toward you the tend to keep walking toward you. So it's a give and take. At the end of the day I prefer this to saying "FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" every mission and losing 50% of them. With LW2 the game is already demanding enough even with pretty much winning every battle, making optimal choices. You still can't cover all your bases and it still continues to ramp up in difficulty because of it. That's plenty for me.

Like I said, I think the games can be played differently by different gamers, who get different things out of it for the time they put in.

[EnigmaticHat]

Oh god the patrols.  If I've learned anything its never stealth missions, because someone will walk right into you 2 steps away from the objective and then trigger 3 pods in one turn.  Stealth exists to make the reveal mechanics less annoying, its not for anything else.

[Chiefwaffles]

Yeah. In vanilla XCOM 2, the patrols are coded specifically to prevent actually using stealth in a mission.
Though it is fun doing stealth in an ADVENT facility assault. With the right maneuvering, you can plant the X4 then get on the skyranger the next turn without drawing any enemy fire.

In Long War 2, they remove the mechanics but the stealth is still wanting. Probably one of my major dislikes of LW2; XCOM 2 just isn't designed for stealth the way LW2 wants to use it.