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[GiglameshDespair]

"XCOM is shit compared to the old X-Com" is something that has been discussed at length and multiple times. You also called the opinion everyone who played and like both new and old wrong as well, so...

[i2amroy]

I'd just like to point out that criticism of the new XCOM is still relevant to the thread. Nowhere does it say that all discussion on the new XCOM has to be positive.

People's comments, feelings and thoughts do not become inherently more valuable for being positive about the game. This is a discussion thread, not an altar to lay worship down on the new XCOM and Firaxis Games.

If you feel positive about the new XCOM then that's great. Please don't try to silence people with legitimate criticisms regarding the design direction of the game or dismiss them as attention seekers or trolls.

I'd accept that as valid reason... if your posts appeared to have any actual reasons for your criticism in them. Lets recap shall we:

I wish they'd return to the glory days of XCOM.

Fair enough. I might not necessarily agree with you, but you present it as an opinion, and I'm accepting that we are allowed to hold differences of opinion.

The remake was a total flop without the Long War mod.

Personal opinion state as a fact. No support given, and directly contradicted by both the sales numbers and the personal opinions of others in several places. Let's just set this one aside shall we?

Absolute drivel.

Deriding comment. Personal opinion stated as a fact. No support given.

The new XCOM is trash compared to the old one.

Deriding comment. Personal opinion stated as a fact. No support given.

Anyone who feels differently either didn't play the old one or lets the flashy graphics distract them.

Insult to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Ad hominem fallacy.

The Long War mod brought the whole thing closer to the feel of the original.

Fair enough, and a bit of support... for a fact about the Long War mod. Still nothing about why New-COM is bad in your opinion.

The people who made the Long War mod should be the ones making the new XCOM game... They actually get what made XCOM great.

Not a bad statement, but again contains no support about "what made XCOM great" that is lacking in the other parts of the post. Combined with the rest of the post, it loses a large portion of what semblance of nicety it has and just becomes an unspoken "New-COM isn't great" deriding comment again.

You want to put together a good statement about what you feel about it, with reasons for what you think, and personally I'd be fine with it in the thread (though I'm obviously not Toady or the OP, so they may have differing opinions). Posting valid opinions isn't something I'm against, after all, and it would be related to the subject matter at hand in my opinion. On the other hand, continued posting of your personal opinions by stating them as simple facts, without support, should not be a subject of any place that condones reasonable discussion, and as such I'll kindly join the others asking you to leave this thread until you change what you are doing.

Thank you for understanding.

[Chiefwaffles]

Can we just not start please?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

All discussion doesn't have to be positive, but all discussion does have to be supported in some way. "This isn't X-Com" isn't a reasoned or meaningful argument against or for anything. It's tautological, because they aren't the same games.

I will be far less likely to start reporting people or temp locking the thread if criticism is backed by argumentation. Why should we have 20+ squad size instead of 6? How should features like these be implemented given the massive jump in graphical quality from 90's sprites to 10's polygons? What is the actual benefit or determent of any particular element to the overall quality of the game?

As was said, this is a discussion thread. Not a complaint thread. If you truly desire to wash your hands of NewCom because it's a casualized action shooter with a complexity intended for the mentally disabled, then please do so and don't post about it here. The 'New Thread' button is sitting right there in the topic listing, and the XCOM Hate Thread is but moments away from creation.

[KingofstarrySkies]

Also, if you're gonna whine, go to the other thread. Not the one for the sequel.

[scriver]

So about those reptile mammaries. Aren't they something.

[Aedel]

So about those reptile mammaries. Aren't they something.

Who here would laugh if they turned out to actually hold toxin like people said earlier?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I've never played an XCOM game, so I have no idea which ones are better. The old ones look pretty neat, but so do the newer ones.

Short listing for your benefit:
X-Com: UFO Defense - The original. Good enough that it made the rest of the series happen. Remember to get patches and/or Open X-Com unless you want the authentic experience of not actually being able to select your difficulty level, among other things.
X-Com: Terror From The Deep - This is literally a reskin of UFO Defense. That said, if you like UFO Defense a reskin may not be a bad thing. TFTD is also where most of the reputation of X-Com as the most hardcore turn-based strategy game ever made comes from, due to the aforementioned difficulty glitch causing MicroProse to have UFO Defense Superhuman equal TFTD Beginner.
X-Com: Apocalypse - A bit different, the last of the Holy Three Originals for most people. Apoc happens all in one city and has a faction system beyond "kill ayys get $". Also has a RTS mode of dubious use.
X-Com: Interceptor - Never played this one myself, is more focused on a spaceship simulator than traditional X-Com. I've seen some people hate on it but it seems at least liked by the majority.
X-Com: Enforcer - Never played this either, it's a third-person shooter supposedly set during UFO Defense. Most people say it's pretty shit, but the people who like it always strongly advocate for it.
UFO: Aftermath/shock/light - A trilogy of 3D games that are pretty gratuitously X-Com even though they aren't set in it. RTS instead of TBS. Also known for stories of bizarre and horrifying glitches like uninstalling Steam in the background. Pretty good otherwise, very fleshed out story compared to OldCom and does original things too, so not wholly derivative.
Xenonauts - Speaking of wholly derivative, if you're an OldCom purist this right here is your best bet for reclaiming That Feel. Xenonauts is independent but basically what happens when you get a bunch of people who love UFO Defense together and tell them to make a video game. Less original plot and mechanics than UFO: Afterblank, but doesn't pull punches in the way that only a person who bases things more off the memory of TFTD than the reality would. Critical acclaim.
X-Com: Enemy Unknown/Within - Also known as NewCom or FiraxCom. Series reboot. Well liked with some prominent exceptions. Mechanics only thematically based off of OldCom, but in the details are their own thing. Actually has set characters and dialogue, which pretty much none of the other mainline games do.
X-Com 2 - That's what this thread is about.
X-Com: The Bureau - 2K Interactive's...uh..."attempt" at X-Com. Absolutely infamous for having been the announced reboot before Enemy Unknown that was basically shot down and rebuilt due to fan outrage alone. Ultimately became a third-person squad shooter ala Mass Effect. Earliest setting of any invasion game listed here, in the 1960's. Perspective of a single solider working for the original X-Com Project. It apparently managed to redeem itself in the eyes of a few. I'm actually still playing through this one, can't say I'm really engrossed yet, but the option to wear a hot pink tie is a mark in its favor.
Lazer Squad - A 1988 game that created the style that the invasion games have used ever since. Kind of obscure. I know nothing more than that.

[Rolan7]

I don't know if anyone would call X-COM Enforcer *good*...  It's incredibly over the top and kinda fun in an arcade way.  But it's completely absurd.  It abandons the canon, and I don't mean in a Star Wars sequels way.  I mean the weapons and most of the enemies aren't X-COM, and the story is "a dweeby researcher builds a robot to fight all the aliens, who run at it in massive waves of cartoonish gore".  It's a lazy tie-in...  But, it was sorta fun several years ago.  Flash-game tier.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

I don't know what to tell you, every once in a while I run into people who appoint themselves the advocate of Enforcer and all that it was. I will say, however, that cartoonish absurdity does have a root in X-Com. The opening of UFO Defense is literally Saturday morning cartoon-style with added grimdark. Very 90's.

[Sonlirain]

Quote

You missed a few notable games.
http://www.ufo-extraterrestrials.com/
That game is basicly Xenonauts done 8 years earlier

And of course the Quake engine open source game.
http://ufoai.org/wiki/News

Also enforcer is a hate it or love it ordeal.
A decent arcade shooter... released on a strategy game IP... so yeah not really aimed at the IPs fanbase.

[USEC_OFFICER]

I'd like to point out that nobody actually thought to themselves, "You know what the X-Coom franchise needs? An arcadey action shooter." Instead what happened is that an attempt at making a 3D X-Com sequel using the Unreal Engine fell through and Hasbro (who I believe had their hands on the franchise at this time) basically went, "Well we have the assets... We should do something with them," and thus Enforcer was born. As such I like playing through the game to think about what could have been. From what I vaguely remember, the scrapped project was going to be a tactical shooter in the vein of Rainbow 6 (or something like that), and involve commanding/managing/upgrading a mobile starbase as you help some friendly aliens (who plucked you out of space/cryostatsis or something) against the Etherals. Which could have been pretty awesome and completely opposite from how it turned out.

[The13thRonin]

I'd just like to point out that criticism of the new XCOM is still relevant to the thread. Nowhere does it say that all discussion on the new XCOM has to be positive.

People's comments, feelings and thoughts do not become inherently more valuable for being positive about the game. This is a discussion thread, not an altar to lay worship down on the new XCOM and Firaxis Games.

If you feel positive about the new XCOM then that's great. Please don't try to silence people with legitimate criticisms regarding the design direction of the game or dismiss them as attention seekers or trolls.

I'd accept that as valid reason... if your posts appeared to have any actual reasons for your criticism in them. Lets recap shall we:

I wish they'd return to the glory days of XCOM.

Fair enough. I might not necessarily agree with you, but you present it as an opinion, and I'm accepting that we are allowed to hold differences of opinion.

The remake was a total flop without the Long War mod.

Personal opinion state as a fact. No support given, and directly contradicted by both the sales numbers and the personal opinions of others in several places. Let's just set this one aside shall we?

Absolute drivel.

Deriding comment. Personal opinion stated as a fact. No support given.

The new XCOM is trash compared to the old one.

Deriding comment. Personal opinion stated as a fact. No support given.

Anyone who feels differently either didn't play the old one or lets the flashy graphics distract them.

Insult to anyone who doesn't agree with you. Ad hominem fallacy.

The Long War mod brought the whole thing closer to the feel of the original.

Fair enough, and a bit of support... for a fact about the Long War mod. Still nothing about why New-COM is bad in your opinion.

The people who made the Long War mod should be the ones making the new XCOM game... They actually get what made XCOM great.

Not a bad statement, but again contains no support about "what made XCOM great" that is lacking in the other parts of the post. Combined with the rest of the post, it loses a large portion of what semblance of nicety it has and just becomes an unspoken "New-COM isn't great" deriding comment again.

You want to put together a good statement about what you feel about it, with reasons for what you think, and personally I'd be fine with it in the thread (though I'm obviously not Toady or the OP, so they may have differing opinions). Posting valid opinions isn't something I'm against, after all, and it would be related to the subject matter at hand in my opinion. On the other hand, continued posting of your personal opinions by stating them as simple facts, without support, should not be a subject of any place that condones reasonable discussion, and as such I'll kindly join the others asking you to leave this thread until you change what you are doing.

Thank you for understanding.

No support given... Personal opinions stated as fact?

It's almost like this is a games forum on the internet and not an academic research paper. I'm not here to submit a thesis and you have no right to police my posting. I'm here to share my opinion on the game that the thread revolves around, and I have absolutely every right to do that while staying within the rules of the forum and furthermore I may do so in a manner of my, not your choosing. If that bothers you then you have absolutely every right to not read or respond to my post.

This is the last post I will make even acknowledging people complaining about something that is entirely within the rules of the forum. If you continue to make posts attempting to bait or point-score regarding the nature of my posting rather than discuss the topic my only response will be the report button for dragging the thread off-topic. Thank you for understanding.

Now if we could get back to discussing the game at hand...

In response to other people suggesting that they're two different games and there's no use comparing them: if that were the case they could have quite easily made the new game a new intellectual property. They knew the old game was popular so they decided to invoke the franchise in hopes of driving up sales. There's nothing inherently wrong with that. However when you build upon a franchise there is a certain expectation that you stay true to the mechanics of the original installments. The new XCOM game throws the baby out with the bathwater in its implementation of new features. Some were welcome... Many were not.

It's a big reason the game Beyond Earth [another reboot by Firaxis] received at best mixed reviews. It wasn't a bad game in its own right but people expected that it would stay truer to the legacy of Alpha Centauri. And that time they at least changed the name of the newer game to somewhat distance it from its predecessor.

[Rolan7]

What you're saying applies best to the previous game, which is released.  If you must criticize an apple for not being an orange, AGAIN, we've already pointed you to the apple thread.  This thread is about an unreleased superapple with a lot of unknowns.

While yes, it will probably be similar to the apple we know, we're here to speculate about the superapple.  Complaining about its appleness is pretty much off topic.

And seriously, we just threw a bunch of oranges at you.  Why must you hate our apples??

I'm hungry.

[The13thRonin]

What you're saying applies best to the previous game, which is released.  If you must criticize an apple for not being an orange, AGAIN, we've already pointed you to the apple thread.  This thread is about an unreleased superapple with a lot of unknowns.

While yes, it will probably be similar to the apple we know, we're here to speculate about the superapple.  Complaining about its appleness is pretty much off topic.

And seriously, we just threw a bunch of oranges at you.  Why must you hate our apples??

I'm hungry.

If you are considering buying an apple from the apple store only to realize it is rotten (or perhaps a better fit for this analogy, you find out that it's actually a pineapple that has been painted red and the store owner insists that it's an apple) you do not go to the orange store to complain or voice your concerns.