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[Egan_BW]

Even in vanilla EU, you capture your enemies alive so that you can rip their memories from their brains while they're still alive. All for the cause of Saving Humanity, of course.

[TempAcc]

And by the way, x piratez is pretty amazing. This reminds me to finally get off my lazy self and get a copy of oldcom running and install the mod again. That was some proper guerrila xcom fighting, with mutant sluts and slavery to boot.

Anyway, I do really like the way firaxis are handling the newcom series, but I didn't really get the "guerrila" feel from newcom 2. I mean sure, the theme was "xcom on the run", but it didn't feel like anything was actualy chasing me apart from the occasional UFO, it felt more like a race against a timer, which did spice things up quite a bit, and I liked the customization, but the loot system was kinda meh, and we didn't get to kidnap aliens. The whole stealth mechanic also felt kinda gimmicky, since you only get to do an ambush per mission unless you pulled out a lucky roll with a specialist on one of the randomly generated hacking bonuses, which I can understand, since every engagement was small in scope, and it makes sense in context, but it was a bit of a let down, and they kept the whole "enemies are broken up into tiny squads that all simultaneously gain awareness of you once revealed" thing.

[Chiefwaffles]

I bet that Apocalypse only has a chance of appearing as a NewCom game if the series as a whole proves successful enough to wager Civ-like sequels. It just seems like a properly-done Apocalypse would be a pretty serious departure from the new series as it stands. So if it does ever come out, I'd definitely guess it'd come out as a spin-off type game, like Civilization Beyond Earth.

I sure hope the series isn't going to stop any time soon. But XCOM isn't that expandable of a formula to be easily kept fresh throughout multiple games. XCOM 3 is a definite possibility given the sequel hook from 2's ending, but even then, there's a small chance that said hook is for an expansion.


And to TempAcc, who posted while I was typing this:

Yeah. XCOM 1 does theming much better than XCOM 2. It's definitely outmatched in terms of gameplay and XCOM 2 is certainly the superior game in my opinion, but the theming is so much better. There's a mild horror aspect with the way the game handled itself. The terror missions, the way the pods activated with that piano sound effect and all, the tutorial, and the already-mentioned aspects of Enemy Within. But XCOM 2 feels like it's guerilla resistance in name only. The city maps are cool, but it doesn't feel like you're guerillas or rebels or anything at all. It just feels like you're fighting an enemy and nothing else.

[TempAcc]

Ye, a newcom apocalypse game is kinda wishful thinking on my part, but a man can dream, specially now since openapoc's development doesn't seem to be very lively. If someone could remake apoc into what it was meant to be, it would be one of my dream pc games.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

X-Com 3 would hopefully break the technology issue by way of Lovecraftian/Extradimensional aliens that the Ethereals' best efforts are only marginally effective against, so you can start the player off with plasma and blaster bombs then watch as it fails to be effective (which would be very intimidating for the player). Maybe some kind of horrible backlash for using psi.

TFTD didn't really nail Lovecraftian aliens, but things like the Gatekeepers and Codexes tells me Firaxis could pull it off themselves. The extradimensional angle is already covered by Apoc's true aliens, and you could probably incorporate some of that.

I'm also pretty convinced from X-Com 2's final mission that there's some kind of alternate realities/time travel thing going on, what with the confusing dialogue provided by the two Ethereals, including a reference to the final mission of X-Com 1 that didn't happen in X-Com 2's canon. My fast and loose is that after X-Com 1 they ran face-first into whatever the mysterious threat referenced in both games is, and the Volunteer did some psionic godhood things to ensure the first invasion succeeded so that Earth would have a chance to survive later.

[Egan_BW]

Ye, a newcom apocalypse game is kinda wishful thinking on my part, but a man can dream, specially now since openapoc's development doesn't seem to be very lively. If someone could remake apoc into what it was meant to be, it would be one of my dream pc games.

Frozen Synapse 2 would appear to be doing a cityscape metagame directly inspired by Apocalypse, so you could look into that.

[TempAcc]

:U, I'll look into it

Anyway,

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

ye, the xcom2 ending kind of implies that the ethereals somehow have knowledge of encountering the commander in the first game, with references to the final mission that never actualy happened if humanity got stomped (mentioning how the commander is leading xcom to victory again, somehow), and to some sort of vague threat that we're simply "not ready" for (it will follow you, as it followed us). Then we get the energy tentacles arising from a crack at the bottom of the ocean surrounded by scattered advent equipment and a statue of an ethereal.

So, maybe they're doing the TFTD thing of an alien force awakening in the depths of the ocean, but also making them not be a part of the ethereals menagerie? Some sort of greater threat? That would provide another reason as to why they decided to settle on earth, apart from the avatar project turning humans into slurry that is used to make the ethereal's new bodies.

And there's another thing. The avatar body the commander used apparently never made it back through the gate, leaving the ethereals with what they wanted, minus the commander himself. Why the hell did they want the commander anyway?

[MetalSlimeHunt]

Behold, the greatest failure...of the Ethereal Ones. We who failed to ascend as they thought we would.

No! You need us! It will find you, as it found us! We are your only hope!

Clearly something more going on behind the scenes, or maybe Jake Solomon just likes really suggestive writing with no meaning behind it.

inb4 the Volunteer becomes an all-consuming psionic abomination in the far future, and the Ethereals once known as Humanity travel back in time to find a solution.

[Egan_BW]

Isn't the plot also tied into The Bureau? Crazy bodiless ethereals talking about weird unexplained plot stuffs. At some point we'll go  full circle to an FPS about shooting flammable black blobs. Or maybe that there Prey is secretly set in XCOM land. HL3 confirmed.

[MetalSlimeHunt]

The Firaxis team said they consider the Bureau a different canon, and not a part of their story.

[Egan_BW]

Huh, could have sworn that there were references in the end of XCOM 2. Might be good old false memories, of course.

[Chiefwaffles]

XCOM 2 does definitely seem to imply lots of connections with the Bureau and XCOM 1 makes some references to the Bureau as well. Enemy Within's Meld Recombination research report mentions "redacted data stores created in the 1960s" as well.

Did Firaxis actually say at any point that the Bureau's canon is separate from NewCom's? It's believable, but the series feels like it's making a decent amount of references to the Bureau.

[Egan_BW]

Though, given how tiny and non-obvious that part of the plot is. (Basically only ethereals talk about it, at the very end of the game), Firaxis may just be trying to keep it on the low down until some big plot revelation or something.

[EnigmaticHat]

What's weird about newcom 2 is that it puts a neat bow on the ending of newcom 1

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

the great enemy of the ethereals is that they are slowly dying due to their immense psychic power, they need to create a new body that is both physically and psychically strong to host their spirits or whatever.  Hence why at the end of Xcom 1 they paraded out all their "failures" that were only good at one or the other.

but then it comes back with a stinger that's like "lol JK there's a new threat out there."

And now of course there's radio silence on the topic of sequels, just like before.  Seems pretty likely we'll get a sequel anyway.

[Flying Dice]

That was hinted at in nuCOM 1 as well, though.