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[Grim Portent]

A few levels of Mastermind Rogue for 30 foot range Help as a bonus action would be a good addition to the concept.



I've got a bit of an odd character idea in my head lately, a Zealot Barbarian/Divine Soul Sorcerer. Since they were young they've had visions of a mysterious lady when they dream, and they've become a wandering champion of sorts, seeking to assemble an army to use to help the lady of their visions claim her rightful place as queen.

Thing is the lady in question is Pale Night, a demon lord of the Abyss who aspires to claim the title of Queen of Chaos by having one of her children or champions kill Demogorgon and take his place as Prince of Demons. The character knows this, knows the unspeakable horror that is Pale Night, but genuinely loves her and seeks to further her goals without thought of reward.

[Kagus]

Why that particular class combo, if I might ask?

[Grim Portent]

Why that particular class combo, if I might ask?

Barbarian sworn to a divine/blasphemous existence of perpetual war, sorcerer born to fulfil a holy or unholy purpose. Thematically they fit well, and I like gish builds. Would probably be Barb 3 for the subclass then straight Sorc.

Zealot barb has the bonus of being ressurected only costing the spell slot, no diamonds, which I suspect would be something that would come up from time to time given the fact I'd rather be spending money on soldiers and supplies than on diamonds for the revolving door on the afterlife. With the Divine Soul's access to cleric spells I would probably pick a lot of divination spells, demon summoning spells and maybe some necromancy, Shadow Blade would be a must though.

I don't think it would be a good build, being essentially a worse bladesinger/sorcadin/padlock, but it's an idea I like anyway.

[Kadzar]

Would probably be Barb 3 for the subclass then straight Sorc.

Unless you really feel a need to have 9th level spells or an extra metamagic option, I would probably advise to stay until 5th level so you can pick up Extra Attack.

Though, granted, that does hold back your spell progression for a few levels, or, otherwise, you have to stagger to make it work.


This reminds me that I really don't like the 5th edition multiclassing method or the 3rd edition one it was based on, or the AD&D dual classing rules that that seemed to be based on.

If I had to say my favorite method of multiclassing, it would either be how Dungeon World does it or how Worlds Without Number does it (link to the current beta rules, which Kevin Crawford has said is okay to share. Also, here's the current Kickstarter if you weren't aware of it).

I think Dungeon World is the best for rules that let you pick small bits of other classes to strap onto your class, whereas Worlds Without Number is good for letting you mix two different classes that progress at the same to feel like a proper gestalt of the two.

[Kagus]

I'm distracting myself with icky combat-effective builds like polearm battle masters, when I should really be focusing on more important things like P O P S I C L E   M A N


Prestidigitation
This spell is a minor magical trick that novice spellcasters use for practice. You create one of the following magical effects within range:

• You chill, warm, or flavor up to 1 cubic foot of nonliving material for 1 hour.

Shape Water
You choose an area of water that you can see within range and that fits within a 5-foot cube. You manipulate it in one of the following ways:

• You cause the water to form into simple shapes and animate at your direction. This change lasts for 1 hour.
• You freeze the water, provided that there are no creatures in it. The water unfreezes in 1 hour.
• You change the water’s color or opacity. The water must be changed in the same way throughout. This change lasts for 1 hour.

Both are Wizard cantrips, and can therefore be used at-will.

Combining their strengths, you are able to flavor, color, and freeze approximately 7 gallons of water worth of popsicles (provided you can argue that a popsicle matrix is a "simple shape", otherwise it's just one really huge popsicle that may need some help) for an hour. Sticks not included.

[Dostoevsky]

Wait, flavoring is a cantrip? Why aren't there gobs of restaurant-running wizard apprentices or the like? Sure, 1 hour means you can't have some giant wizard version of little debbie snack cakes, but that'd be plenty of time for a local fixture of cheap nutritious treats with artificial flavors?

[MrRoboto75]

but if we just have wizards flavor things we don't have to invade fantasy!india for cool spices

[Persus13]

That's literally a thing in Eberron with magewright cooks who know Prestidigitation.

[Kagus]

Consider the scale though. Prestidigitation can have up to three simultaneous non-instantaneous effects active at any one time. If your cook can only put out three specially-flavored dishes an hour, that's probably not going to bode particularly well for your big ol' restaurant.

Of course, this brings up the issue of dilution. If you use prestidigitation to flavor a cubic foot of water (roughly 7 gallons) with an intensely strong flavor and then lightly sprinkle that water on a number of other dishes, do the other dishes take on a fraction of the flavor and distribute it into the dish as a whole, or do you get the full flavor but only when you're specifically (exclusively?) "eating" the flavored water? What exactly is the difference, even?


If you flavor water and then boil it into steam, can you "taste" the steam? Does it register as a smell? How much steam would that even make?

The spell Create or Destroy Water will let you make 10 gallons of potable water (liquid) or a 30' cube of fog (gas). So presumably if the ratio of 1 gallon per 3 cubic feet holds for other spells, then you should be able to make slightly more than 21 foot³ of flavored steam, approximately, from the maximum amount of water that can be flavored at once.

That's more than enough to hotbox a room with beef stroganoff.

[Egan_BW]

I say spell fizzles if the targeted matter is destroyed by being split up or phase changed. Because that's the lame way to rule it and DnD spell tend to favor those.

[Kagus]

I say spell fizzles if the targeted matter is destroyed by being split up or phase changed. Because that's the lame way to rule it and DnD spell tend to favor those.

Man, you're just like those no-fun fuddy-duddys who say I can't use Grease and Heat Metal together to turn the dungeon floor into an enormous skillet for frying up an inhumane amount of bacon...


Also, for no reason in particular... A Red Dragon Sorcerer 6/Celestial Warlock 6/Arcana Cleric 8 with 20 CHA and WIS would be able to cast Green-Flame Blade for:

Primary Target, 1d8+5(we're using Shillelagh from the Warlock's pact of the tome)bludgeoning, +3d8+5 fire

Secondary Target, 3d8+10 fire

...with an additional +10 fire that can be applied to either the primary or the secondary target (or even split up into two +5s, one for each). So that *could* be a 3d8+20 on the secondary target, which does not have an attack roll or saving throw  ... I remember reading someone's idea of carrying around a bunch of tied-up rats that you could whip out and hit then hit them as the primary target of the attack, letting the big high-AC monster take the unavoidable secondary damage for the cost of one very squishy, toasty rat carcass.


Is maximizing a melee cantrip an effective goal for a level 20 three-way multiclass? Probably not.

It's good dumb fun though.


EDIT: Just had our first game of CAH-DnD, where our character creation and all dice rolls were determined by drawing from Cards Against Humanity and then interpreting the results.

'Twas fun! One of our players had to excuse themselves from the room for a moment because their stomachs had cramped up, they were laughing so hard.


EDIT2: So, I've been thinking a little bit about the problem with Guidance... That problem being that it's a bit too applicable, and being a cantrip means that there's no real out-of-combat restriction on its use. This means that once a player has it, you can either bog the game down with shouting by requiring that the players announce it every time it's cast, or just yield and contend with every ability check made within range of the caster will have that extra +d4 on its roll.

For one thing, it's inordinately useful and can tilt the scales of just about every check DC they come up against, making balancing trickier. For another, it's disruptive to gameplay when used and tracked in the normal fashion (and if it's not used specifically because of its powerful and disruptive nature, then it becomes a burden to the player for self-restricting themselves).


Personally, I've opted to avoid taking it as a cantrip where possible and going for something else instead. Resistance, while theoretically just the flip side of the Guidance coin, seems considerably more reasonable due to its reactive usage rather than a proactive use; which limits the scope of its use from the altogether-too-broad range of Guidance. It also sets itself up for fun scenarios of extended care, where someone having to make multiple saving throws against death, spell or disease would have the Resistance caster sitting at their side and tending to them to make sure they had the best chance of making it.

Presumably I'm not the only one who feels this way about Guidance, so I'd like to hear people's thoughts on how to handle it gracefully


EDIT3: Gnomish Barbarian 2/Paladin 6, has +CHA mod to saves versus magic, advantage on WIS, INT and CHA saves vs. magic, advantage on DEX saves versus effects that can be seen (including magic), and advantage on STR saving throws when raging.

Moustache of antimagic is G O O O O O O O !

[Kagus]

Double post for great victory.

So, I was poking around trying to find rulings on Lucky vs. Portent, when I came across this tweet from Mr. Crawford on the mechanics of Portent.

The wizard: "I use Portent!" The d20 (or d20s with adv./dis.) is rolled. Portent replaces the resulting die.

And I just... Why?

Why would you still roll the dice if you're going to replace the result?

This also isn't a matter of where advantage would override Portent with "Well I rolled with advantage and got a 15 and 18, so the Portent roll of 8 replaces the 18 and I use the 15 instead" because Advantage/Disadvantage has specifically been pointed out as being one roll. The two dice are to be treated as just one for the sake of all mechanics and abilities that influence or are influenced by d20 rolls.

...except that no, apparently it's not. Crawford has also come out and said that if you have disadvantage and use a luck point, you can choose any of those three dice for the result of the roll. This is considered a "specific exception to a general rule".


Although, apparently it *is* a matter of allowing Lucky to override Portent. Presumably this has something to do with the order of events. I will be obnoxiously turning things into proper nouns for the sake of emphasizing that each one means something distinct and different:

• Portent is used to determine Result of Roll (before Roll)
• Roll: A d20 (or two d20s in the case of advantage/disadvantage) is rolled, and Result is determined
• Lucky is used (after Roll and Result) to roll a new d20, which earns a new Result. Lucky then allows user to choose which Result is the Outcome
• Outcome

...except that this specifically does not work with the Lucky+disadvantage interaction Crawford has stated, since that would require Lucky to be an augment during the Roll. But if it's part of the Roll, then Portent overrides it.


And as per usual, while attempting to look up One Thing^TM for 5e, I end up derailing completely out of control and plummet into a rabbit hole of confusion. I just closed a tab where I was confirming an interaction between Time Stop and Delayed Blast Fireball. Blagh.

[Criptfeind]

Presumably I'm not the only one who feels this way about Guidance, so I'd like to hear people's thoughts on how to handle it gracefully

I played a heavily homeruled game at one point that limited guidance use to spellcaster ability mod uses per day in order to solve this problem. Realistically still a VERY strong cantrip, but you can't use it for absolutely everything and need to put some thought into it's use. I think it was an okay idea, although the game didn't last long enough to really get a great feel on it.

[Persus13]

I only have a problem with Guidance when people spam cast it every minute.

Portent you effectively don't need to roll, but you still replace the die roll. Another scenario where that could matter is the creature making the roll doesn't always know portent got used, so they use something to give themselves advantage.

The Lucky disadvantage thing isn't a Crawford ruling, its how Lucky is worded, Crawford just acknowledged that that wording allows that.

[Kagus]

Presumably I'm not the only one who feels this way about Guidance, so I'd like to hear people's thoughts on how to handle it gracefully

I played a heavily homeruled game at one point that limited guidance use to spellcaster ability mod uses per day in order to solve this problem. Realistically still a VERY strong cantrip, but you can't use it for absolutely everything and need to put some thought into it's use. I think it was an okay idea, although the game didn't last long enough to really get a great feel on it.

I dunno... While that is certainly an effective way of trimming down the spam, I have kind of a principle disagreement with making what's supposed to be an infinite resource (a cantrip) have a finite number of uses per day/rest/etc. Personally I'd rather find some way of limiting the conditions of usage, or just outright replacing it with something else, than to start tracking it as a resource. But, I mean, it's certainly a straightforward option!

I only have a problem with Guidance when people spam cast it every minute.

Precisely, but the nature of the spell means that you're either doing exactly that or you're specifically handicapping yourself for the sake of "not being annoying". And that can be a tricky balance to strike for some players, either leaving it as a dead cantrip just taking up a slot, or overusing it and slowing the game down. I'd rather either have some sort of mechanical limitation that makes it a bit more sane and takes that responsibility off the players, or just exclude it entirely and have them take a different cantrip with other uses instead.

Portent you effectively don't need to roll, but you still replace the die roll. Another scenario where that could matter is the creature making the roll doesn't always know portent got used, so they use something to give themselves advantage.

The Lucky disadvantage thing isn't a Crawford ruling, its how Lucky is worded, Crawford just acknowledged that that wording allows that.

Well sure, that's kinda the whole thing though. You don't effectively need to roll the dice, so why would you? Your rolling the dice has no say on whether or not an ingame creature is aware of your premonitions, and as far as meta knowledge goes you have to declare Portent usage before a roll is made anyway. I'm thinking it's just some odd language use from Crawford, but I really don't understand why he seems to be saying you should have to roll dice that have already been invalidated.

As for ruling versus not-ruling, I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean... I found a couple places where he seems to specifically state that that's how the feat is supposed to function (and then an earlier one that directly contradicts the other statements) rather than just a potential interpretation, so I'm unsure what constitutes a ruling in that sense and what doesn't.