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[Flying Dice]

Immune to that spell.

There are spells that can trump the Tarresque but that isn't one of them.

Herp, that'd be it. At least I had enough clarity at whatever ungodly hour that was to know that I'd inevitably forget about something.

I also specifically didn't bring up the lasso trick because that requires a DM who will let you get away with basically anything.

[Neonivek]

I guess I don't like it under the same principal of "Diablo could have won if only he didn't constantly send EXP and equipment the heroes way" In Diablo 2.

Weak traps which are good for just getting a cheap shot in here and there... seem to empower the PCs more then hurt them.

Might as well have the trap fire gold coins and gems at them.

Disabling the trap without falling prey to it (or disabling it after falling prey if it is continuous or a resetting trap), was always what I used as a bench mark.

[Flying Dice]

Eeh, I've always seen that as more about successfully overcoming a challenge, even if you did it in the most hamfisted blindly idiotic way possible. Considering that people still get exp as long as they survive combats, even if their approach was the equivalent of "stick your hand in the bear trap to see if it's armed, then beat it against a wall until the hinge breaks".

[Neonivek]

Basically it is a way to force traps to have to be higher CRs, otherwise your just feeding the PCs.

It means that my itching powder trap was worth 100 exp per player.

[Twinwolf]

If getting exp for setting of traps annoys you, couldn't you just house-rule it out if you're the DM, or mention it to the DM if you're a player? I've always seen the rules in these sorts of games as a general guideline more than set in stone.

[Neonivek]

If getting exp for setting of traps annoys you, couldn't you just house-rule it out if you're the DM, or mention it to the DM if you're a player? I've always seen the rules in these sorts of games as a general guideline more than set in stone.

Players get really mad if you gimp them out of exp.

Which is odd because I've always had it where traps don't give EXP unless you circumvent them somehow. xD I've never gotten exp for activating traps.

I already have a rule where you cannot gain EXP off someone who has no interest in fighting who doesn't fight back. At least to dissuade people from intentionally killing townsmen just because they hear they have some skill.

[Twinwolf]

Really, this is the first I've heard of the getting exp for getting past traps thing. My character in a 5e game on the forums got past a bunch of them and didn't get any.

[Flying Dice]

All official trap designs I've ever seen included a CR and an exp award.

For example, here's a simple pit trap from PF:

Pit Trap
   CR 1/4

XP 65

Type mechanical; Perception DC 15; Disable Device DC 20
EFFECTS

Trigger location; Reset manual

Effect 10-ft.-deep pit (1d6 nonlethal falling damage); DC 20 Reflex avoids; multiple targets (all targets in the trap’s area).

This pit trap is not intended to harm its victims. There are a host of hidden pit traps scattered throughout the room. To lessen the danger, a mound of pillows has been placed at the bottom of each pit to cushion the fall of anyone who gets caught in one. Probing for the pits with a pole or weapon grants a +4 circumstance bonus on the Reflex save to avoid falling into a pit.

It's not a very good trap, and it doesn't award more than a pittance of exp. Here's a much higher CR trap, also from PF:

Prison of Blades    CR 16

XP 76,800

Type magic; Perception DC 35; Disable Device DC 35
EFFECTS

Trigger visual (true seeing); Reset automatic (5 minutes)

Effect spell effects (forcecage, windowless cell, DC 20 Reflex save or be trapped inside for 13 rounds), two mage’s sword spells shaped to look like ranseurs attack anyone inside the cage for 13 rounds (Atk +19 melee [4d6+3/19–20]); multiple targets (all targets in a 10-ft. cube)

The rules also always say something to the effect of "The party earns exp for defeating the trap." It's like any other encounter: if the party never finds it, they get no exp because the encounter never happened. If they defeat it by disabling it or escaping it, they earn exp. There's also a specific instance from the DMG regarding traps in combat:

If the characters overcome a combat encounter where a trap or hazard presented a threat during the encounter, give them XP for the trap or hazard even if they didn’t disable or neutralize it

Basically as long as the party encounters the trap, they should get the exp value of it unless they completely fail: if they die or are forced to backtrack and find another way around the trap, no exp, otherwise yes.

If you have problems with traps giving exp, either don't use many traps or make sure they're good ones that will have a CR-appropriate impact on the party, their resources, and possibly even their minds.

[Neonivek]

Traps are better as an overall effect then an outright KILL THEM!!! effect

But the game outright begs you to make traps to outright kill the players if they don't find it in advance...

I just flat out don't like getting a exp bonus for being hit in the face... So long as what hit you was a trap.

At least when monsters attack you, you have to move, attack, and weave and stuff.

But if the trap was a wall of fire, for example, you get exp the first time you decide to walk through it and soak all the damage.

Did you have to use some resistance to mitigate or eliminate the damage? Nope. Do you have to disenchant it? Nope.

It is nonsense to me. It is the equivalent of an encounter being you tied up while a troll hits you in the head... but he suffers a heart attack... and since he 'technically died hitting you' you get the exp as if you actually fought the troll.

You "stopping the trap" and "Circumventing the trap" was purely incidental... The Trap did its dang job you foiled absolutely nothing. You could have been entirely replaced by an inanimate object and had the same effect and it would have been more effective.

Who do you think you are? Superman? Just because you know it is a trap it doesn't mean you have to jump into it.

---

I am just going to have to remember to houserule it for now on that traps do not give exp for "falling" for a trap. You have to disable or circumvent it.

That is how all my DMs did it anyhow... and how it makes sense.

[Flying Dice]

Well, with that troll... the party would get the exp. 'Cause, y'know, they were in combat and took injuries before DM fiat killed it.

What difference is there between a trap or a creature when they both boil down to:

1. Party encounters obstacle, possibly noticing it before stumbling into it.
2. If obstacle was detected beforehand, party member specialized for dealing with that sort of obstacle (aka someone who isn't BSF) might attempt to do so.
3. If 2 does not happen, fails, or the party does not notice the obstacle, then the obstacle attempts to harm the party and drain their resources.
4. Party members check their stats and possibly make rolls to see whether the obstacle's innate abilities and rolls are sufficient to harm or inconvenience them.
5a. The party successfully overcomes the obstacle and is awarded experience along with the opportunity to steal anything worth taking from it.
5b. All members of the party are killed or retreat without overcoming the obstacle. No exp.

Besides, the most effective indirect traps are also the biggest pain to deal with for everyone involved (hint: teleporation, preferably random or into danger, or both). Traps that neither split the party nor attempt to do damage would need some sort of long-term or permanent affect, and would probably both be too high CR to feasibly use in most campaigns as well as incredibly annoying. Maybe you could mock something up that splashed de-aging water instead of acid or something, meh. Spears or darts tipped with hallucinogens instead of poison.

[Neonivek]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

There was no combat. You don't need to be in combat to attack, this isn't a videogame

And who said DM Fiat? Maybe that Troll had a heart condition before hand.

Also traps that split the party or do long term affect wouldn't be "Too high a CR", 3.5 makes use of them all the time (typically a trap that causes no harm gives no exp... The "Bonus exp" would be in the difficulty modifiers for the next encounters). This is ignoring that spells directly apply their circle in CR. HECK most harmless traps aren't intended as a trap, they might be a secret passage that the players blundered into.

But yes I also ignore harmless traps regardless of what the rules say. Disabling a teleportation trap capable of teleporting the entire party into a model replica of the same room isn't going to win you "mass teleport" exp (mostly because it just becomes a bloat). I might give a bit, but you didn't really achieve anything.

Which is kind of a thing... Getting hit by a trap isn't an achievement nor is it a learning experience... at least no more so then the basic exp just for beating an area is.

I mean the trap was built, hidden, and put there to hurt you... and you foil it by... falling for it. Which is exactly what it was trying to do (and MOST traps aren't meant to kill you but weaken you off)

---

Then again as I said, I've never ever gotten a single bit of exp for not foiling a trap.

Heck one DM I had basically went the extra mile and if you got hurt by a trap at all... you just flat out don't get the exp regardless if you disable it later or not.

I've never ever heard of until just yesterday of earning exp for basically being a dummy who falls into a pit trap and needs to be roped out. It is the dumbest thing rule wise I ever heard (while Anti-plague is more of a setting issue in being a piece of technology that is outright many times more advanced then a even a renaissance setting would suggest)... It feels like incompetence EXP. No other system I have ever played rewards you for incompetence... At most they give you "Well you tried your best", even if that failure manages to hurt you dearly. The closest I have ever seen are games where there is a pittance reward for "Failing so spectacularly that everyone has a great time".

but then again "EXP for just seeing a trap that exists" is a pathfinder thing. It is the only edition of D20 that does so. But then again Pathfinder is a very "I want to give you full exp no matter what you do" system. So choosing, for example, to bribe the god not to kill the city nets you exp equal to defeating the god. It is probably the worst aspect of Pathfinder now that it has been brought to my attention.

Which means EXP in Pathfinder isn't "Experience" but rather some intangible reward taking out of roleplay and right into "videogame". To say that bribing someone with money you have on hand is the same equivalent learning experience as actually facing them in mortal combat is just flat out abhorrent.

---

I know sometimes you have to kind of fudge things

Generally speaking I don't give exp for someone being killed outside of a combat thing... Casting Cloud Kill doesn't net you exp for every person who dies from it after you left the area because you aren't learning from it even if we do it by a move by move thing.

---

Honestly this whole "EXP for having nothing happen" makes me want to just throw away Pathfinder on the spot.

Oh well I'll see how I feel in the morning or when my ADs kick in again.

Either that or I should, to relieve stress, have a parody team where you are a bunch of archeologists and when you discover a new creature from the bones it left behind or from reading books... you gain exp because "You noticed it and it died... Even if it died in the past"... But I don't think people would enjoy playing in mean spirited parody games... Even if that would help me come to grips with this.

[NullForceOmega]

Today's session was more slow paced compared to the past few weeks, thief girl had a very serious character moment, as did the paladin.  Not a tremendous amount of progress overall, but they did manage to get ahold of information that makes their next step a bit more straightforward.

[Harry Baldman]

Getting XP for disarming a trap with your face does kind of make sense from a certain point of view - whatever does not kill you serves to make you stronger. It works if you consider XP as a mechanical representation of learning.

On the other hand, you can also consider XP as your official adventuring credibility, in which case getting XP for falling into a trap like a complete nitwit does not make nearly as much sense. Though if you tank a fireball and walk it off like nobody's business, jump 20 feet in the air to get out of a pit you fell into, step right through a cloud of poison gas while holding your nose or rip open a metal cage you got trapped inside of with your bare hands, you could say that this does raise your adventuring credibility as well. So you could compromise and say that if you do get caught in a trap, you get XP for it if you can free yourself from it without any need for assistance from someone not caught in it, preferably with hilarious displays of brute force.

[Neonivek]

But the key is you didn't try and you expended no effort.

[Rolan7]

Ripping open a cage or walking through fire sounds like a significant effort. It's not the wizard or rogue solution, but it's a solution some characters are good at.
It expends healing and/or involves risk, unless the trap is harmlessly weak. Seeing it in action sounds just as educational as having the rogue cut a tripwire, for example.