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[Graknorke]

how many games of mafia have you played before, Graknorke?

Answered in my first post:

Myself, I've been in one BM before, 45. I feel that the experience taught me a lot about holes, digging, and when to stop. Also that 4mask is terrifyingly focused if he sets his sights on you.

Though that game did have more going on that we have here. Seems to be a lot of players who are happy to just kind of wait things out. I mean... you're doing it, McCoder is doing it, hiddenleafguy is doing it, and altogether it causes the discussion to slow down a lot.

[FallacyofUrist]

Welp. Ah, well.

...
...
Now what?

[H4zardZ1]

No, the random votes in the RVS are supposed to be put on effectively to focus on one person to ask questions to, then when they do, you change your vote. Not to vote on one person and then tunnel-vision them for no reason.

My question have been answered and that above reason. Unvote
HiddenLeafguy: Hey, ask questions or something? It's something you could do at phone, right?

[FallacyofUrist]

Perhaps he could, but it would take too much time. Hm.

Well. I agree with H4zardZ1, but I feel voting for hiddenleafguy at this point would look scummy(bandwagoning and whatnot).

Hm.

You know, just as a present for a town cop we hope we have, I'm going to detail an experimental tactic here.

Spoiler: Clown Cop Gambit (click to show/hide)

Suppose you are a town cop, on the third day, with 1 town and 1 scum dead. You have inspected one of the remaining players the previous night and found them scum. You could simply argue that they are scum- or try to get yourself lynched.
Here's the deal. You state in a post that [playername] is scum, then try to get yourself lynched. Once you're lynched, flipping cop, the other players know for sure(miller notwithstanding) that [playername] is scum. Hello, town victory.
The other town players should go along with this for reasons:
1. If a scum player tried this to make themselves seem like a town cop, backing out at the last moment or whatnot would look extremely scummy.
2. It's proof. The only better proof is role flips from deaths.
3. No normal town player who wanted the town to win would do this.
4. So basically, the only player who would attempt this would be a town cop.

If there's not a town cop(1/3 chance) then I'll feel a bit irritated after the game is done.

[Graknorke]

Completely unnecessary. The only person with a motivation to false roleclaim is scum, so you're either going to have people believe you and lynch the last scum, or lynch you and things will go the same way anyway.

[notquitethere]

Town can falseclaim when they think the cop realises they are town, so as to draw a nightkill from scum, but I've not seen that happen on Bay12. Town players should never try and get themselves lynched.

[FallacyofUrist]

Hm. Thanks for the feedback.

[4maskwolf]

Town players should never try and get themselves lynched.

Objection, your honor.

Supernatural 7.

[FallacyofUrist]

I'm going to take a look over there.

[4maskwolf]

I'm going to take a look over there.

Don't bother.  It was just a reminder to NQT that on rare occasions, town sincerely offering to be lynched can be beneficial.  Doesn't matter for this setup, though.

[FallacyofUrist]

Hm. Good to know.

[Hiddenleafguy]

Questions? What is this, thing you are inquiring me to ask? Do I just say "Hello sir would you like to question?" or is it a product of some strange company, if so am I a mere internet ad? Do I have a "Do you want to buy the product if the future? If so say hi to the question!" on my face? But really it is a product of my horrible memory and no quote button.
Vote Fallacy

[notquitethere]

Wonderful! I am now reasonably convinced that Fallacy is probably not scum given that EVERY player except for myself has voted them (McCoder unvoted) and bussing on D1 is relatively uncommon. Everyone on the Fallacy lynch had better explain why they think Fallacy is more likely scum than anyone else here.

[Graknorke]

Well, there was the initally trying to get a player or two lynched for no reason whatsoever. Then the really weird behaviour afterwards, insisting that I vote for notquitethere, with all of a single post for evidence. Then when I said that it is very much scummy to try and steer the game like that, he effectively threatens an OMGUS vote (putting me in the "could be a scumteam with NQT" list) and then began the pages of insisting that he's town. Which did nothing to endear me to his arguments or likelihood of being town.
Besides that, a Urist and Urist scumteam, while casually dismissed by both of them, would make a whole lot of sense. Fallacy taking McCoder's vague sense of distrust for NQR and spinning it into a big nonsensical argument that he doggedly stuck with, then as soon as the heat turned on Fallacy, McCoder voted him. But obviously not very firm in that vote, since he then dropped it because of a muddled emotional appeal and facts that weren't true.

But if you're looking for shady votes on Fallacy, Hidden's was put at the end of some word salad that didn't explain the reasons at all, 4mask's was possibly to encourage Fallacy to do something but it wasn't really explicitly clear and H4zard's was repeating other people's arguments.

[Loud Whispers]

I am town. Is there anything wrong with saying that I'm town?
Loud Whispers, why do you vote me for aggressively scumhunting(in my opinion)?

Loud Whispers: I agree with hiddenleafguy shouldn't edit the post and Fallacy's repetition, but voting someone is a great way to pressurize someone. What do you disagree with, "I am town" repetition, voting persistence or both?
Everyone: Ask everyone. Random vote one.

Constant reaffirmation that "I am town" is one thing - akin to being at the scene of a Luchadore murder running around screaming "I DID NOTHING HERE" when no one suspected them to begin with.

What particularly caught my attention was this:

Point ho. One vote on NQT isn't enough pressure.
Come on, people, vote for the guy, let's get him hurting! Let's get him talking!

Calling for a sword of damocles to be placed above notquitethere.

I'm telling people to vote NQT because I think he's scum. I don't think that telling other people who to vote for is a bad thing. This isn't a game where votes can be forced onto people with role abilities. Make your own choices, just note that I want you to vote for NQT.

And then we see FallacyofUrist switching from fleeting suspicion to confidence in notquitethere's guilt, without explaining any reasoning or new information which could have allowed for such a leap in judgement.

Spoiler: EVIDENCE (click to show/hide)

I would speak on the possibility of a Graknorke and Tawarochir scum team, but that would backfire heavily at the moment.

The simple truth here is that I don't know what to do at the moment. I would unvote, but that would look scummy. I would then choose someone else to pressure, but that would look scummy.

A true Luchadore is not concerned with the appearance of justice; beneath the mask - the Luchadore is justice.

And if not, they are scum.

A Luchadore would be willing to die to save the most glorious wrestling match to have ever been seen; a Luchadore would be willing to die to bring down the people they know without a doubt are sullying the wrestler life.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

everyone
1.who do you think is being helpful?
2.who do you think is being unhelpful?
3.If you had to lynch someone right now who would you lynch?
4.if you were a doctor who would you save?
5.who do you think is playing well?
6.who do you think is playing poorly?

1. Grakpope, explains his arguments well.
2. FallacyofUrist, if you are really an honourable Luchadore then cease your mad obfuscation.
3. Hiddenleafguy, sneaky Luchadores who speak to green men and camouflage themselves in the ring are as trustable as hobbitses.
4. Wrestling.
5. I don't really have a frame of reference.
6. See #5, or alternatively, #2.

Loud Whispers: Which town power role do you think is stronger in this setup, and why?

Jailkeeper; they're the only one who can safely reveal they are not a cheating-mafia-licking-boot-humping scum.