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[SealyStar]

I don't see what is so hardcore feminist either...

It is the same old "Turning women into mothers and mothers only" thing.

After walking around the house for an hour and thinking, I do see why it's feminist in a way. The main reason I missed it the first time is because feminism itself, as a deeply fragmented and nebulous movement, is divided on the point I'm making: Fury Road is feminist because it lets women be uberviolent action heroes, and while this isn't exactly revolutionary it's done incredibly well.

First, I don't understand the analysis of the movie as "blaming toxic masculinity for the apocalypse", in particular. Immortan Joe, the other warlords, and their goons are all in it for resources and power, and the fact that they're all men basically seems like a reflection of the "survival of the fittest" nature of the wasteland ("biotroofs", as some people ignorantly call it) more than a deliberate effort to show the ebul paytreearkey.

There's never a hint that they do it because they're "manly", since the only "manly" trait I have ever seen attributed to "toxic masculinity" seems to be a propensity for violence and virtually all the good characters, male and female, are violent as well (Max, Nux, Furiosa, the battle grannies).

I now understand Anita's comment about women committing "masculine violence" but I disagree with it. She has some weird gender essentialist tendencies, which seems to be in conflict with common feminist thought, including among her own fans, that the key to gender equality is to stop arc-welding traits to genders. To me it seems regressive to assume violence is a "male" trait and I enjoyed it the same in this movie regardless of the gender of the person dishing it out, which is why I think it's done so well.

As for the question of violence itself: Obviously we don't want brutally violent road warriors in reality, but in the context of a fictional dystopia where violence is the norm it seems hard to criticize violence done for good reasons against people who are violent for evil reasons. And save for maybe the first film, Mad Max as a franchise, despite not falling into standard conceptions of science fiction or fantasy, is so clearly divorced from our own reality that anyone who seriously intends to go road warrior against the "bad guys" of 2015 Earth after seeing it probably is well.

[Neonivek]

Ok one of the "feminist" things could be...

That
A) The "Damsels" don't just sit around being helpless... they are mostly helpless because they are not trained warriors, but when they need to do something they do it
B) The Female Lead is considered awesome... and she being awesome isn't questions nor is it an exception
C) In fact none of the characters are "Awesome for a girl"

Which is astounding for a modern movie... Most modern movies like to go "SHE IS A GIRL! LOOK! see! girls can do stuff too!" but this movie? Nope! she is just awesome.

[SalmonGod]

Here's a neat thing about Mad Max's visual effects.  Really shows how prevalent and vital CGI is to films today, when a film that's so acclaimed for its unusually extensive use of practical effects is still filled with shots that are 80% CG.  But most viewers won't really notice or think about it, because it's being used to populate images with mundane stuff like scenery and extras or alter lighting and coloration.

[Parsely]

http://imgur.com/a/zsRVc

Spoiler: Before (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: After (click to show/hide)

Gravity was just Sandra Bullock's floating head for most of the movie but it was done very well. There's nothing wrong with a movie were most of the shots are populated by CGI, but it's more fun to be able to look at impressive cars like the Doof Wagon and the Gigahorse and say "see that? that's real, we built that."

[SalmonGod]

Sure.  Not disagreeing.  Just think it's interesting to look into this stuff.

[nenjin]

I'll admit, I didn't notice a lot of the canyon scenes being CGI. Some of those are sort of obvious, like the blue zone.

Spoiler: Before (click to show/hide)

Spoiler: After (click to show/hide)

This one blows my mind a little though.

[Bauglir]

I love things that are self-aware. With a caveat - I love movies that know what they are trying to be, and embrace it shamelessly. No crushingly obvious lampshading "Ha Ha Yes This Is An Action Movie, Geddit" sorts of things.

So. I fucking love this movie. This is certainly the best movie I've seen since Pacific Rim. My impulse right now is to say that it's better, actually; give me some time to let the novelty wear off and we'll see how it goes. I love action. I love hyperbolic projections of a genre. I love post-apocalyptic stuff. And, for my inner feminist, this movie is exactly what I want to see culture produce more of. Why has been explained at length, but it essentially accomplishes every goal I could want it to without making it exactly a central point. It's casually feminist, and it's beautiful. It doesn't need to convince you of any feminist positions, it just accepts them and acts on them like they're the most natural fucking thing in the world. Amazing.

Also, Imperator Furiosa is possibly the greatest title and name combination in the history of ever.

[Aqizzar]

Slight revive.  I went to the theater again, this time with my dad, and have some new perspectives.  My dad is a lifelong anarchic gearhead who was a huge fan of the (first two) Mad Max's when they debuted in America long ago, so he went into it hopeful yet jaded.

The 3D was a little overpowering, but he was blown away by the constant adrenaline rush.  The only other movie that made him forget how to breathe was The Exorcist.  He was still so jazzed the next day that he watched The Road Warrior... and stunned by how cheap and quaint it feels in comparison.

He latched onto different parts of the movie than I did, like the character arc of Nux: The Life of a Minion.  Also the business with the War Boys carrying paint just to huff for extra juice, or getting a racing boost by literally spitting gas into a supercharger.  Those are entirely real and possible things that only an unhinged mind would conceive of as plot points.  And of all possible places to be in that chase, he wants a job with the Polecats.  Well, besides being the Doof Warrior, who both as a character and actor briefly had the greatest job on the planet.

He did point out one problem I agree with: The War Rig has an amazing propensity to break down or get stuck just long enough for the plot to catch up to it and then suddenly start working fine again.  I know that's exactly what makes it a story instead of "everything works out fine", but after a while it gets kinda silly.

A few more thoughts about the movie that occurred to me on a second watch:

Charlize Theron didn't even try to fake an accent like the rest of the cast and the more she talks the more grating it becomes.  Tom Hardy spends half the time grunting and nobody had trouble understanding him.

How many times could the Buzzards or mountain bikers have successfully robbed anyone when one tangle with the War Rig nearly obliterates their tribes?

I like how Joe's battle convoy includes a car-carrying trailer that progressively loads up with wrecks from earlier scenes.

What exactly was Joe's war convoy doing when they turn the War Rig around and come back to the canyons?  They're sitting around catching rays and waiting for... for what?  For the protagonists to stupidly decide to face them head on?  For the swamp to dry up so they can continue the chase?  For Joe to play with his scepter until he gets bored and goes home?

For that matter, with an entire armada of purpose built war machines, why were the People Eater's limo-tanker or the Doof Wagon anywhere near the front of the action?  Especially when they go into the canyons, it's just wide enough for the Doof Wagon and nothing can get around it.  It has no purpose except to be loud and they still ram it into the War Rig.

And Nux's car with that post on the front Max is chained to.  Obviously its an expansion on the idea of the Lord Humungus's people-bumpers, but the more I think about it the more striking it becomes.  I have to assume that post wasn't bolted and welded onto Nux's car in the couple of minutes the war party took to assemble (if it was, that's even more impressive).  Which means that shackle post was already there.  Which means, "Where can I chain a man to my car and still keep an eye on him while driving full speed?" is a question Nux had to answer at least once before.  That post says volumes about the little world he lives in.

There's nothing wrong with a movie were most of the shots are populated by CGI, but it's more fun to be able to look at impressive cars like the Doof Wagon and the Gigahorse and say "see that? that's real, we built that."

Not just built that, really built that.  The Gigahorse for example was going to just be a bunch of fake crap bolted onto the minimum amount of functional material to keep it driving at 45mph for filming.  George Miller insisted on the vehicles being at least mostly functional.  Although the Gigahorse does have some fake pipes and intakes, it also has a thousand horsepower of motor driving the wheels, which required a specially made transmission for its huge chassis that was rebuilt every single damn day that they filmed with it.

It's a hallmark of the Mad Max aesthetic to make the viewer believe that the insane crap you're seeing is all tangible.  In Beyond Thunderdome, Tina Turner specifically learned how to drive a stickshift so she could really operate her crazy vehicle instead faking it with a hidden pro-driver.  Every scene she appeared in could have been filmed stationary let alone with a working truck, but that wasn't good enough for her or the director, and it does sell her character.

Worth checking out the concept art too, including the Gigahorse design that survived completely intact from Miller's daydreaming in the late '90s.  It is a rare and beautiful thing to see any production that takes its off the wall concept art completely seriously.

[IronyOwl]

I loved this movie, but if I'm to be totally honest I'd almost have preferred if they'd just shown the first 45 minutes and then called it a day. I feel like they had these awesome, awesome scenes early on, then at some point forgot they were making Mad Max and so "realized" they had to make an actual movie out of it. They really didn't! People Hurl Molotovs At Spiked Cars The Movie would have been just fine.

I did like a lot of the stuff after; notably, the idea that deciding you don't like the current cruel world populated by assholes, so you and a band of chosen ones are just going to waltz into Heaven just isn't going to work. A lot of post-apoc scenarios tend to focus on that mythical dreamland that somehow nobody's discovered yet, or if they have they're very nice welcoming people who have solved all of your problems for you. But the scenes that weren't flaming car chases tended to feel a little slow and pointless in comparison to the rest of it.

The only other complaint I have is that the presence of guns made almost everything less interesting and entertaining. I feel like this movie needed infinite explosives/incendiaries, infinite vehicles, and zero gun. You want to take someone out you go stab their spiked doublecar with a spear like every other decent person.

[Aqizzar]

The only other complaint I have is that the presence of guns made almost everything less interesting and entertaining. I feel like this movie needed infinite explosives/incendiaries, infinite vehicles, and zero gun. You want to take someone out you go stab their spiked doublecar with a spear like every other decent person.

I have mixed feelings about this myself.  On the one hand, one of the most striking aspects of The Road Warrior was the absence of guns.  Everyone relies on bows and spears; Max and the Humungus are the only people we even see with firearms and they both have serious trouble trying to use them, which makes them all the more dramatic when they appear.

That being said, that movie was made 35 years ago for a primarily Australian and European audience.  Fury Road was made in a more Americanized than ever before world of 2015, where the "post-apocalyptic survivors" schtick has since been beat thoroughly into the ground.  I myself always wondered, how can guns and ammo be so much harder to find than working cars?  Fury Road is full of guns, because really, why wouldn't that be the case?

For that matter, The Road Warrior was the exception not the rule.  Obviously Mad Max was full of gunplay, being a movie about cops and gangs.  And Beyond Thunderdome was loaded with guns, there's just no big shootouts in the script.  There was even that early scene where Max unholsters like ten pistols, which Fury Road copied wonderfully with Max disarming the Rig.

[nenjin]

Worth checking out the concept art too, including the Gigahorse design that survived completely intact from Miller's daydreaming in the late '90s.  It is a rare and beautiful thing to see any production that takes its off the wall concept art completely seriously.

TBH, I see the whole thing, the idea of the car, in the concept art. A Chevy turned into the mother of all off-road drag cars. The extra body up top in the movie kinda confuses that image. I think they should stuck with the concept art, it looks way more metal. I certainly didn't go "OMG, TWO Cadillac bodies!" amidst all the action. I just saw two, went "huh, weird" and moved on.

The only other complaint I have is that the presence of guns made almost everything less interesting and entertaining. I feel like this movie needed infinite explosives/incendiaries, infinite vehicles, and zero gun. You want to take someone out you go stab their spiked doublecar with a spear like every other decent person.

I can kinda agree with this. I could have done with more homemade weaponry on the projectile front. They have that moment where they're counting bullets and like "oh, man, ammo so rare" and then that problem is solved for the rest of the movie when Max scrolls back up with a sack fo ammo.

It's also one of those movies where a shit ton of guns get fired and only the bad guys get hit, most of the time. There's this scene where Max is standing on the back of the War Rig with his back to all pursuing pack. The scene drags out for just a moment too long, where you see all this shit going on in the background out of focus, where my brain went "Dude, these people have guns, wtf are you doing standing there."

Although Bullet Farm is probably my favorite little flavor bit of the whole movie, and explains why ammo is not a problem except for dramatic purposes.

[Aqizzar]

TBH, I see the whole thing, the idea of the car, in the concept art. A Chevy turned into the mother of all off-road drag cars. The extra body up top in the movie kinda confuses that image. I think they should stuck with the concept art, it looks way more metal. I certainly didn't go "OMG, TWO Cadillac bodies!" amidst all the action. I just saw two, went "huh, weird" and moved on.

I read an interview about how the cars were built, and there are two reason why they uglied up a Cadillac like that.  One was to help justify the interior scenes, where there's five people with standing room in what's supposed to be a wagon cab.

But the bigger reason was pitched as a way to build Immortan Joe's imagery: in a world where nobody even has one of anything, this guy literally has bodies to spare.  Same reason the People Eater's limo has a half dozen bumpers and grills, or why Nux's deuce is constantly spitting fire, the cars were all part of their character.

I can kinda agree with this. I could have done with more homemade weaponry on the projectile front. They have that moment where they're counting bullets and like "oh, man, ammo so rare" and then that problem is solved for the rest of the movie when Max scrolls back up with a sack fo ammo.

The story does have a problem of building up dramatic tension that half the time just disappears a couple scenes later.  I think it's another way the movie tries to subvert action-genre rules, not every potential problem has to actually be story critical, sometimes problems get solved.  Still begs the question of why to include it except as a way to answer whether they even care about ammo.

That reminds me of another issue I have with the movie, how Max dispatches the Bullet Farmer.  Or rather, how he doesn't.  The whole movie definitely uses Max as an audience surrogate and viewpoint, with his perspective used for many of the camera shots, and how the sound rings when a gun goes off near his head and only his head.  And then right in the middle of the movie, he goes off and does something super bad ass that we just have to assume was as big a deal as the story treats it.

Yes, it is true that using the audience's imagination to fill in a scene can sometimes work better than actually showing anything, and it's hard to picture any way of showing what max does there that wouldn't look stupid if fully explained.  But the way it breaks with the rest of the movie's pattern is bothersome.

[IronyOwl]

I myself always wondered, how can guns and ammo be so much harder to find than working cars?

Although Bullet Farm is probably my favorite little flavor bit of the whole movie, and explains why ammo is not a problem except for dramatic purposes.

I do have to agree with this point; I liked the notion that the post-apocalyptic future, while terrible and scavengy, was still sustainable to some extent, and they weren't just eating canned food out of not-yet-looted supermarkets and so on.

That reminds me of another issue I have with the movie, how Max dispatches the Bullet Farmer.  Or rather, how he doesn't.  The whole movie definitely uses Max as an audience surrogate and viewpoint, with his perspective used for many of the camera shots, and how the sound rings when a gun goes off near his head and only his head.  And then right in the middle of the movie, he goes off and does something super bad ass that we just have to assume was as big a deal as the story treats it.

Yes, it is true that using the audience's imagination to fill in a scene can sometimes work better than actually showing anything, and it's hard to picture any way of showing what max does there that wouldn't look stupid if fully explained.  But the way it breaks with the rest of the movie's pattern is bothersome.

Yeah, that was definitely one of those scenes that never really went anywhere. He even gives his "if I'm not back in time go on without me" speech, then is done and back pretty much instantly.

And for that matter, the "break down long enough to almost matter" thing comes back in force as well. They're leaving giant tracks and following what looks like a trail through dry high ground, how hard could it be for them to catch up? But apparently they're still back there somewhere, firing at nothing and driving around within easy walk to and blow up distance.

[SalmonGod]

This is the best thing.

[Bauglir]

This is the best thing.

Y'know, I've seen a lot of best things in my day. I had expected to be unimpressed.

I love being wrong.

Yes. Hell Yes. Hell Fucking Yes.