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Author Topic: Semaphore Switch  (Read 5301 times)

Corona688

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Semaphore Switch
« on: May 13, 2015, 12:19:52 pm »

A method for bridging mechanisms to workshops and stockpiles.  An empty stockpile would send a 'connected' message, a full stockpile would send a 'disconnected' one, etc.

A rail switch would also be interesting, something to install at a T intersection to make a cart go left or straight depending on a signal.
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Bumber

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2015, 09:35:37 pm »

A rail switch would also be interesting, something to install at a T intersection to make a cart go left or straight depending on a signal.
Something like a drawbridge?
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Corona688

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2015, 12:29:10 am »

Really?
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Putnam

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2015, 12:42:47 am »

Minecarts will go straight over drawbridges, I'd guess, so having (for example) an east-north track with a drawbridge on top will make it into (essentially) an east-west track when the drawbridge is down.

Bumber

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2015, 06:38:42 am »

Minecarts will go straight over drawbridges, I'd guess, so having (for example) an east-north track with a drawbridge on top will make it into (essentially) an east-west track when the drawbridge is down.
I'm not entirely sure, but I think the setup works something like this:
Bridge Lowered:
→═╦░═→

Bridge Raised:
→═╦█═
  ↓
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A wizard has turned you into a wagon. This was inevitable (Y/y)?

NW_Kohaku

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2015, 03:34:53 pm »

See the wiki on track switches.

You can also try setting up pressure plates on portions of the stockpile.  Dwarves seem to prefer filling a stockpile stuffed with barrels from the top left to the right, and then downwards, for example.  They draw from this stockpile based upon whichever barrel is closest.  If you want a trigger to operate when a stockpile is getting empty, put a civilian-triggerable pressure plate on a northwest space of a stockpile that is only accessible from the middle or southeast.  (You might want to include an additional lever and an "AND" function to make it not register when you manually want to prevent whatever from happening.)

Also, see this thread on mechanisms.  "Whistles" that change alerts when powered are similar to what you are talking about. 

Turning mechanical power into a job order is somewhat new, but also something a little more complex than I think Toady is willing to allow for.  He's already said that he doesn't want even basic scripting languages to be part of how dwarves are controlled, and mechanism-to-job-order is functionally a physical scripting language.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 03:48:35 pm by NW_Kohaku »
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Corona688

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2015, 06:13:18 pm »

Most inanimate objects don't do a thing to pressure plates, though.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2015, 06:27:06 pm »

Most inanimate objects don't do a thing to pressure plates, though.

The dwarves walking onto the tile to pick up the last roast or drink the last of the dwarven rum can trigger pressure plates, though.

In fact, now that I think on it, if you make more than one stockpile, with a smaller one separated from the main one by a small hallway with pressure plates, and set it to take from the main stockpile, and the main stockpile is closer, you can make that the trigger with less chance of mishap.  You could simply set traffic restrictions on the pressure plate hall, and have an alternate route with a door you forbid except when the stockpile is being restocked.  That should make it simple to control when dwarves having to go to the smaller stockpile triggers the pressure plate.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2015, 06:30:43 pm by NW_Kohaku »
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Corona688

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2015, 08:28:02 pm »

Okay.  That's nothing resembling my idea though, where the stockpile sends a signal.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2015, 10:49:44 pm »

Okay.  That's nothing resembling my idea though, where the stockpile sends a signal.

Yeah, well, that thread on additional mechanisms is from 2008, which is about when the Suggestion Forums started.

I honestly don't expect we'll get something where a mechanical signal can be transmitted by an empty stockpile, since that doesn't make particularly much sense, mechanically.  At best, you could create a scripted command where a dwarf pulls a lever when the stockpile is emptied to create something similar, but that is, again, the sort of scripted commands that Toady has previously said he is loathe to include. 

In its own way, finding ways to be creative with what you have is the real challenge and thrill of DF. 
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Corona688

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2015, 02:44:04 am »

It didn't make sense until we had machinery that could fill stockpiles.  Now we do.
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2015, 11:37:21 am »

We don't have machinery that can fill stockpiles.  We have track stops that can dump to the north.  If that happens to land on a stockpile tile, that prevents them from being moved again, but they functionally are an exploit that voids normal stockpile behavior that was bizarrely also seemingly intentionally put into the game. 

Keep in mind that bins and barrels exist for a reason.  I don't know if quantum dumping will cause "spilling" at some point in the future, but it's a bit of a stretch to assume we're going to get mechanisms that are based entirely off of a pseudo-official exploit that makes no particular sense in an in-world sense.
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
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Corona688

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2015, 12:53:56 pm »

Yes, yes, quantum stockpiles are evil and all that.  Funny enough, this suggestion is partly to solve them...  When they finally go out, some method of controlling what's loaded on a minecart will be needed more than ever, because overflows will jam up the system or maybe even kill people.

This switch was one idea for that.  What would you suggest?
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NW_Kohaku

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2015, 01:45:55 pm »

Yes, yes, quantum stockpiles are evil and all that.  Funny enough, this suggestion is partly to solve them...  When they finally go out, some method of controlling what's loaded on a minecart will be needed more than ever, because overflows will jam up the system or maybe even kill people.

This switch was one idea for that.  What would you suggest?

Personally, I'd suggest simply implementing maximum capacities for a given tile, and "spilling" through different tiles until items are spilt through enough tiles as to prevent saturation.  Volume and Mass was a thread on the topic before, and in the Realistic Mining thread, I suggested mullock/rubble be treated in similar ways such that overabundance of items blocked pathing as well as causing spilling, forcing methods of item disposal rather than quantum stockpiling. 
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Personally, I like [DF] because after climbing the damned learning cliff, I'm too elitist to consider not liking it.
"And no Frankenstein-esque body part stitching?"
"Not yet"

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Corona688

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Re: Semaphore Switch
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2015, 05:56:47 pm »

Maximum capacities for a given tile translate into maximum capacities for a given creature, though.  There's quite a lot of things that'd be affected by that change.

Perhaps 'large' loose items like rocks or corpses flow, while 100 pants wouldn't.  Perhaps a limited flow where depths max at 7, like water, but flowing stops at a 45 degree angle.  Place enough rocks in one spot and it'd assume a depth like

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That's not related to the need for minecart related stockpile control, though.  Right now, minecarts pay no regard to free room at their destination.
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