Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[andrea]

Isn't the revival of this thread based on people at valve talking about integrating paid mods in a new, still i development game, exactly to avoid the mess that happened when they tried to force the issue mid-life of a game?

[Flying Dice]

That's not modding. It's unnecessary DLC and just as horrid as paid mods. If a game is so shallow and incomplete that it needs a bunch of extra work just to be playable, that work should either have been included in the base game if it was already done, or should have been created by independent third parties as free mods.

What you're suggesting is something akin to Paradox releasing a game with six $20 DLCs available at launch and then also charging for mods as they're developed. Fuck no.

That's half the point of this fiasco, it's ludicrous to expect people to pay out the nose for fixes and improvements to an already-expensive game which was so dull and unfinished that you got bored after one playthrough.

Let me put it another way. I've created and played through NG on more characters in DS3 in less than a year with zero mods than I have in Skyrim and FO4 combined since Skyrim's release, with hundreds of mods for each. And if I had to pick, I'd still rather boot up DS3 and play it some more. Why the fuck should I have to pay hundreds of dollars to make games in the "fun once they're massively overhauled" section almost as good as games which are fun and long-lasting straight out of the box?

[Urist McScoopbeard]

That is the conundrum isn't it? When does it become development? etc.

I am inclined to agree with you, just stating that if mods were to be paid, I would expect a much more extreme level of vetting and content quality.

[Sergarr]

That is the conundrum isn't it? When does it become development? etc.

I am inclined to agree with you, just stating that if mods were to be paid, I would expect a much more extreme level of vetting and content quality.

Very much so. I want paid mods not just because it'll reward good modders - but also because it'll provide incentives and possibilities to make them better. Of course, if it's treated like a shit-DLC-tier dispenser, like Steam apparently did, then it's not going to be a very good thing.

Why does Steam hold monopoly over digital market, again? Digital distribution doesn't sound like a sort of market that would require high capital investment or anything that would make it a natural monopoly like healthcare, so... is there some shady stuff going on?

[itisnotlogical]

I think Steam is just the most popular because it was the first highly visible one, so there's more users, more content, more users come because of that content, etc. and it got huge before digital distribution had really convinced everybody else.

I know a few people that use Origin about as much as Steam, somehow.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Hard to say why Steam is top-dog, if we can all remember, there was a time when Steam was pretty universally reviled. BUT, it was really the only digital distribution platform, so we put up with it. Now it's become so fine-tuned, that it is actually a pretty good platform.

[Retropunch]

Yeah, Steam as a platform is really, really good. Whilst there's no stats on it, I'm absolutely certain that it's stopped 90% of the installation woes that everyone used to have, It's made multiplayer console-level easy for the most part (if you remember before Steam, getting random games to match up on multiplayer was a hellish experience), and the sales and the like are really great. It's also (for better or worse) made game patching and stuff really simple.

Regardless of feelings on their business ethics and all the rest, it's by far and away the best digital distribution platform and the main reason why it's done that is because it's actually done stuff that is consistently useful and it hasn't been greedy so far.

That being said, on a more big picture level, I think they've inadvertently leading the charge in ruining the gaming experience where you bought a solid product and that was that. Now that companies can push out daily patches and DLC without having to worry about it at all, they can release a buggy half finished mess and just drip feed it to people for as long as it stays profitable.

My worry is that the same will happen with mods, and I'm very, very unhappy with that.

[Neonivek]

The other issue is that Steam will likely be non-negotiable with Mod creators as well.

If someone doesn't like your mod...It is gone. You believe you deserve more money? Too bad.

[Flying Dice]

Because Steam was the first big all-games digital distribution platform and Valve is relatively tolerable compared to a lot of other big companies in the industry, like how Google used to be. Fittingly enough, it's going the way of Google as well, becoming increasingly shit over time. The only things keeping Steam on top are momentum and the fact that Origin, uPlay, &c. all manage to be far more terrible. Ubishit will never not be terrible, so there's no threat from that corner...

Another part of it is that Steam is a legitimately third-party platform (despite Valve being a dev themselves), whereas the other digital distribution platforms are generally only for a more limited pool of games, right down to single-dev platforms for a handful of games like what Stardock and Sony had going.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

That's probably the biggest part of why Steam is so successful. Buy your game, install it, no hassle. Once you're in game no DRM, easy Multiplayer (mostly... Gmod and other Source Engine games still suck dick), no extraneous features (mostly.)

[Neonivek]

Not to mention that Valve has made moves that weren't soul suckingly money grubby.

But I am not going to assume everything they do is on good terms.

[palsch]

I can only really talk for myself, but Steam had a great set of features that locked me in;

Early games that required it were unmissable. I bought Portal on disk but then had to install Steam to get it to work. I considered it worth it despite hating the idea at that stage, thinking I could just ignore it and never log in again.

They let you register CD keys bought elsewhere to have digital backups of your games. I moved a bun h of my old games onto it so I didn't have to haul old CDs around, thinking I was taking advantage of them. Later I felt the same activating games from Humble Bundle and elsewhere to use the simpler install manger.

The sales were mind blowing for a few years there. It became worth swallowing the last criticisms to take advantage of 90% off deals, even if you still ahted the idea of walled gardens for software.

Finally the gamification features work, especially combined with the marketplace. I found myself engaged with achievements on some games, and the ability to get cards or achievements using the platform for the game is a nudge towards using it even for games you have DRM free elsewhere. And while you are using it you will be seeing that latest sale on your wish list.

I do despise the idea of the Steam Workshop still (I particularly hate the idea of automatically updating mods pushed through a trusted platform, where I don't know the quality control or accountability on the code being pushed to me) but can't deny the convince and have used it for some trusted or curated mods here and there. The experience is much simpler than my good old days of Nexus, even if  a serious downgrade in many ways.

[Nirur Torir]

Mod conflicts everywhere - and there is a strong expectation that purchased software should work.

"We are sorry. Modding is unavailable in your country due to consumer protection laws Economic Concerns."

[ChairmanPoo]

I dislike Steam. Try to avoid it as far as possible because I don't find it's DRM as unintrusive (that aside, I don't like DRM as a concept but that's another matter).

Case in point: offline Rimworld busts a frigging lot particularily regarding workshop content. I've come to the point that I use steam to keep track of the mods I like... and then download them from the forums and install them in the DRM-free Rimworld version.

[Reudh]

If a mod comes out, and it is like let's say... the Forgotten City for Skyrim, a micro-expansion, i guess? I would happily pay money for that. Forgotten City is very good, content dense, and expands upon existing lore in a pretty good way. It is well enough written I'd consider paying $5.00USD for it.

I came to this conclusion on the basis of the following:

* Forgotten City has high quality voice acting.
* Forgotten City has good, rich content that can be played through slightly differently each time, with different endings. Thus, its replayability value is quite high.
* Unlike a full worldspace mod, it occurs almost entirely within a Dwemer Ruin or two, and like I said, this means the content is densely packed without feeling crowded.
* The writing of the quest is top notch.

Etc, etc, etc.

Something like Falskaar I wouldn't pay for though. This is because:

* Mixed quality voice acting and relatively sparse content. There is plenty of content, but it is spread across a wide worldspace.
* Of course, this is kinda moot because it was written as a portfolio project anyway.

A massive worldspace mod that expands upon the game as well as the official DLCs, or one that adds significant content to the existing worldspace would be totally valid to purchase at a level comparable to other official expansions. Indeed, maybe publishers could do something like Kingmaker for NWN: buy modules, polish them up to developer standard, sell them in a package expansion, give most of the proceeds to the mod authors, or bring them on board as new talent should they prove good enough.