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[Flying Dice]

https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop

It was linked a few hours ago; when I went to sign it we were at ~28k. Now we're at 56k. Lol.

[Sonlirain]

https://www.change.org/p/valve-remove-the-paid-content-of-the-steam-workshop

It was linked a few hours ago; when I went to sign it we were at ~28k. Now we're at 56k. Lol.

When i was signing it yesterday i think it was below 5 thousant.

[Sergarr]

folks are pulling their content out for fear of theft

Why do they pull their content? It's not like somebody stealing it from them actually prevents them from developing it further, right?

I steal your mod and post it on steam to make money and then claim you are infringing my copyright and have your nexus mod taken down.

Ridiculous I know but it could happen.

What if you use the less-traditional channels of digital distribution that are not vulnerable to lawyer assaults?

(like torrents)
(or github)
(yes it's highly ironic that apparently the best solution to this clusterfuck is to pirate your own mods)

[Leyic]

Oh horror of horrors, mods have stretch goals now.

[BoredVirulence]

folks are pulling their content out for fear of theft

Why do they pull their content? It's not like somebody stealing it from them actually prevents them from developing it further, right?

I steal your mod and post it on steam to make money and then claim you are infringing my copyright and have your nexus mod taken down.

Ridiculous I know but it could happen.

What if you use the less-traditional channels of digital distribution that are not vulnerable to lawyer assaults?

(like torrents)
(or github)
(yes it's highly ironic that apparently the best solution to this clusterfuck is to pirate your own mods)

Torrents can be legitimate forms of distribution!... Did I already do this today...
*Checks*
Yes, in a less serious discussion.

I think the real issue is that modder A doesn't believe in pay-walls, modder B "borrows" his work and puts it behind his pay-wall. Modder A is appalled that his work is now behind a pay-wall. Also, no one is making money off the free stuff that I released unless I explicitly want them too!
As crazy as RMS is, his focus on licenses wasn't so crazy after all...

[alway]

As was said earlier, that's all just standard software licenses. Bog-standard run of the mill copyleft licenses.

[BurnedToast]

I'd like to say this is surprising but that would be a lie. The instant I saw the announcement, the first thing that popped into my head was "this will not end well". Gamers have proven themselves, time and time again, to be the most entitled and selfish group of people I've ever seen, and this is just one more example.

How *dare* anyone have the audacity to suggest that maybe, just maybe if they spent a lot of time and effort making something they should get a few bucks for it. No, they DEMAND everything be given to them for free, or for "donations" (which we all know is codeword for someone else gives the author money, maybe, if they are lucky). I see people saying they won't pay even a single penny for a mod - they are essentially saying that the modders hard work is worth nothing to them. How insulting is that? I actually saw one person post saying the modders were leeches.... how can you lack so much self awareness that you would post that?

Is the system perfect? No. Stealing mods and posting them as your own is something they have to figure out how to avoid. 25% cut to the modder also might not quite be fair (though I think it's not quite as bad as it sounds since the modder is getting access the the IP, free marketing, sales processing, hosting etc). Does the gaming community discuss it in a rational, reasoned way? ha ha no, of course not - they throw a damn fit because they feel entitled to other people's work for free.

The whole thing leaves me disgusted, but sadly not surprised at all.

[Putnam]

Are you paying any attention at all? Have you read a single word in this topic? Modders are some of the most vocally opposed, me included. Instead of going into a textbook diatribe on entitlement, how about actually learning a thing or two about the community?

[BurnedToast]

Are you paying any attention at all? Have you read a single word in this topic? Modders are some of the most vocally opposed, me included.

Yes, because you and some guy on reddit who made a fishing mod are opposed that means every single modder (or even the majority) are opposed.

But still - if the majority of modders really are opposed then what's the big deal? Nobody will put anything worthwhile up for sale and the whole thing will quietly fade away.

(this is of course assuming they have or will figure out a good way to stop mod theft, which I believe they will)

[Putnam]

Me and every other major modder who has posted in this topic, alongside pretty much anyone who thinks of modding cathedral-wise, so many major mod tool developers.

[BurnedToast]

Me and every other major modder who has posted in this topic, alongside pretty much anyone who thinks of modding cathedral-wise, so many major mod tool developers.

Free mods aren't going away. Nobody is going to force you to charge, the workshop remains free to use if the author chooses to keep his mod free. "cathedral" modders can continue to make as much free content as they want.

Why is it a problem that people who wish to charge for the work they do are able to?

(again, set aside the possibility of theft which can hopefully be sorted out, and the cut valve is taking, because we both know that's not what this is really about)

[Morrigi]

Me and every other major modder who has posted in this topic, alongside pretty much anyone who thinks of modding cathedral-wise, so many major mod tool developers.

Free mods aren't going away. Nobody is going to force you to charge, the workshop remains free to use if the author chooses to keep his mod free. "cathedral" modders can continue to make as much free content as they want.

Why is it a problem that people who wish to charge for the work they do are able to?

(again, set aside the possibility of theft which can hopefully be sorted out, and the cut valve is taking, because we both know that's not what this is really about)

It will create a nightmare of compatibility and copyright issues, and the mod developers will still have zero accountability for fixing their broken shit. That is acceptable for a free service, but not for a paid one.

[nenjin]

Free mods aren't going away. Nobody is going to force you to charge, the workshop remains free to use if the author chooses to keep his mod free. "cathedral" modders can continue to make as much free content as they want.

Except they are, because authors are taking them down because Valve does not vet the submissions and no one is under any requirement to source or credit a mod. As pointed out by the Steam EULA, once it's on the Workshop, they own it.

If there were any sort of way to protect people's content, a lot fewer people would be upset. But Valve has basically declared open season on everyone's content, who others can now take and attempt to profit from despite doing no actual work themselves.

And that's totally setting aside the effect of Valve offering to pay people to host their mods on Steam does to mod communities as it divides them between people who are doing it for a hobby and for the love of it, and those who are doing it from profit. Taking the above example, it's essentially encouraging modders to stab each other in the back for Valve's dollars. Unless you have a 100% "don't care what you do with my work" attitude, this is a problem for pretty much everyone.

[Arbinire]

I wouldn't bother arguing, Putnam.  Toast was obviously posting for reaction and he's getting it.  To anyone who has been keeping up on things understands what's going on, and this is just an attempt to obfuscate that.  It's become pretty standard practice to any push that happens these days until any such push/movement/etc. becomes co-opted.

[Morrigi]

Free mods aren't going away. Nobody is going to force you to charge, the workshop remains free to use if the author chooses to keep his mod free. "cathedral" modders can continue to make as much free content as they want.

Except they are, because authors are taking them down because Valve does not vet the submissions and no one is under any requirement to source or credit a mod. As pointed out by the Steam EULA, once it's on the Workshop, they own it.

If there were any sort of way to protect people's content, a lot fewer people would be upset. But Valve has basically declared open season on everyone's content, who others can now take and attempt to profit from despite doing no actual work themselves.

And that's totally setting aside the effect of Valve offering to pay people to host their mods on Steam does to mod communities as it divides them between people who are doing it for a hobby and for the love of it, and those who are doing it from profit. Taking the above example, it's essentially encouraging modders to stab each other in the back for Valve's dollars. Unless you have a 100% "don't care what you do with my work" attitude, this is a problem for pretty much everyone.

Exactly. BurnedToast, how would you feel if you spent months working on something, only for someone to re-upload it as their own work and demand payment for it? It's already happening with this new system.