Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Erk]

this is a good thing as more contributors have stepped up to the plate, reducing kevins insistence on certain thing, or facilitating a quicker development profile towards 0.E ?  Ive also noticed a couple of forks getting some dev time seperatley as well.

It's a very good thing, although it's a bit exhausting. I think you'll find though that the majority of very active contributors tend to share a pretty consistent vision... Kevin and I might disagree on things like whether or not the game should state month-day or season-day dates, but we have a very similar concept of where things are going, and that holds true of a lot of the new folks.

It does mean 0.E is rocketing along pretty quickly. We've already been kind of wondering when we should start thinking about another feature freeze/bugfix/release cycle, although there remain a few big changes to finish first. If i2amroy isn't around anymore maybe I'll make a new thread, since I seem to be the main dev that still posts here and this thread is just going to get more and more out of date.

[Flying Dice]

didn't i2amroy have a falling-out with Kevin? I remember some bad blood there and then his activity sorta fell off a cliff.

I honestly couldn't say, given that basically every single person even remotely involved with the original DDA project had a falling out with him.

this is a good thing as more contributors have stepped up to the plate, reducing kevins insistence on certain thing, or facilitating a quicker development profile towards 0.E ?  Ive also noticed a couple of forks getting some dev time seperatley as well.

It's a very good thing, although it's a bit exhausting. I think you'll find though that the majority of very active contributors tend to share a pretty consistent vision... Kevin and I might disagree on things like whether or not the game should state month-day or season-day dates, but we have a very similar concept of where things are going, and that holds true of a lot of the new folks.

It does mean 0.E is rocketing along pretty quickly. We've already been kind of wondering when we should start thinking about another feature freeze/bugfix/release cycle, although there remain a few big changes to finish first. If i2amroy isn't around anymore maybe I'll make a new thread, since I seem to be the main dev that still posts here and this thread is just going to get more and more out of date.

This isn't very reassuring, given that where he seems to want to take the game is both diametrically opposed to what Cataclysm and DDA were conceived as and to what a whole big chunk of the playerbase want.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I suspect trying to start a new thread would not work very well. Most of us still posting here are posting here because we can't stomach kevin's police state pattern of managing all the other active channels of communication. More than that, I'm still holding out hope that one of the other original team leads will find the time and energy to get back into it, either to fork off an active branch for all of us who don't want to play a twisted, diminished chore list, or to provide a saner focal point for development on the main branch.

Not intending to be blunt about it, but a thread run by someone who has blindly defended kevin with little/no knowledge of project history or the reasons why he's disliked and distrusted isn't the best choice for the one concentration of active players that isn't under his thumb. You seem like a decent dude, but this thread remaining wholly independent of the active development team for so long as it's still just kevin and people below kevin is desirable in my book.

[Il Palazzo]

I for one would welcome a thread that'd talk about the actual game and its actual development instead of the constant defrosting of old drama and waxing butthurt over how the thing doesn't look like it 'should'.

[Flying Dice]

I for one would welcome a thread that'd talk about the actual game and its actual development instead of the constant defrosting of old drama and waxing butthurt over how the thing doesn't look like it 'should'.

The subreddit is going to be better for keeping track of development regardless, y'know, because it actually sees regular posts from more than one or two contributors and has an updated changelog (if you're not using the launcher for whatever reason). I certainly use it for following development and commentary that won't get me b& for dissenting.

There's also the discord.

I don't think anyone sane uses the official forums because good god is that platform's structure obtuse and ass-backwards. It's as bad as the one Conan Exiles uses.

Obviously I'm not going to disclose who I am over there lest I be banned 4noraisin.

e: It's also not "like it should", it's "like it did for years of development until one guy decided to completely change the direction of design to turn it into a different genre and setting entirely".

And since it doesn't seem to be clear: I don't hate kevin. I don't think he's incompetent or stupid. I think he's a petit George Lucas: capable of putting out an excellent project when surrounded by a team with immense creative talent & vision and the ability & willingness to tell him "No, that's a dumb idea" whenever he has a dumb idea. And then when that team goes away, you get the prequels and the lowkey tyranny going on behind the scenes whenever what he wants to do is questioned.


ee: And on a totally unrelated note, did the advanced movement menu get removed at some point? I'm running on build 8365 and all it seems to have is the basic walk/run toggle. Shame if it did, it was nice having that more precise control over stamina use and speed.

[dpwb]

Hi, another one of the devs here. Happy to talk about upcoming features, newly merged features, the direction of the game, etc etc.
One thing I got coming up shortly is a framework for creatures to carry other creatures. So two entities can exist on the same tile.
What this will allow is a) horseriding , b)animals or monsters or NPCs picking up and carrying incapcitated/unconscious NPCs/players/creatures - for rescue purposes or kidnap purposes.

Work in this area could allow the player to play as, or control NPCs/monsters, as the player entity could exist on same tile as the controlled entity.

I've tried a few different implementations, and I am canvassing opinions on how the riding experience should present itself.

I tried a vehicle-like interface but it was forcing a square peg into a round hole.

I am considering using the new auto-move functionality to make the horse continue moving once prompted a direction, and the  " key which would normally change player moving speed, would then set a speed for the horse from stationary to gallop.

Would appreciate any input, I have added a lot of content that does not often need a lot of thought put into UX/UI, this does.

[Aseaheru]

 I think probably the best method of controlling animals would be to make it as close as possible to vehicular movement, perhaps with some niggles to, for example, account for animal stamina and, well, intelligence. The interface could be whatever, solong as the actual controls for movement where sorta close. Work on semi-intelligent self-control for horses and whatnot might even lead to, for example, NPC control of vehicles, which would be rather awesome.

 However, speaking of animals(and to a lesser extent, NPCs), has any effort been put into animal-powered vehicles and/or the ability to choose professions or scenarios that start you out with vehicles and/or animals? Also, is animal handling intended to be a new skill or tied into existing ones, or even not tied into any skill at all?

[dpwb]

I think probably the best method of controlling animals would be to make it as close as possible to vehicular movement, perhaps with some niggles to, for example, account for animal stamina and, well, intelligence. The interface could be whatever, solong as the actual controls for movement where sorta close. Work on semi-intelligent self-control for horses and whatnot might even lead to, for example, NPC control of vehicles, which would be rather awesome.

 However, speaking of animals(and to a lesser extent, NPCs), has any effort been put into animal-powered vehicles and/or the ability to choose professions or scenarios that start you out with vehicles and/or animals? Also, is animal handling intended to be a new skill or tied into existing ones, or even not tied into any skill at all?

The system would mean that vehicles ( carts ) could be attached to an animal and dragged, yes, that is one aspect that is definitely wanted.
That was much easier under my "horse-as-vehicle" implementation, but still do-able otherwise.
Starting with an animal with a scenario has been looked into , but is not currently being worked on by anyone as far as I know.
There are plans to make animal handling and taming more involved. a multi-stage process of taming ( think Rimworld perhaps ) where their utility is enhanced with each step - and that would tie into horse-riding. I will probably look at that myself, after this.

The benefit of not making the horse a type of vehicle is that then the movement could be a hybrid of the horses decisions and the human guidance, which is more realistic, the horse could auto-path around obstacles, and possibly, if not well-tamed or obedient, could throw the rider or be difficult to control.

Animal handling dosnt fit into any existing skill, although I suspect Survival skill will be a placeholder for the time being.
There is early nebulous talk of a "proficiency" system, separate from skills. That you either start off knowing or you don't, think lockpicking, surgery, other complex niche knowledge, this could also potentially encompass animal handling in the future - this would then be tied to starting profession ( a farmer would know animal handling, a burglar might know lockpicking etc ) - but it's just talk at the moment.

[Aseaheru]

 If proficiencies are added, I sure hope that its a thing you can select and add in character creation and not just tied into professions, otherwise that would just be an unrealistic pain.

[n9103]

I think starting proficiencies *should* be tied to starting profession.
But I also think they should be something that can be invested into, both at creation and during the game.

[Erk]

I think I'm the main one pushing proficiencies as a concept (but since I can't code them all I'm doing is saying "everybody listen this would be great"). My vision is that you'd get a certain number of proficiencies to start with per starting level of a skill, plus some for your profession, plus some for your starting stats. So you'd get another chargen tab after skills  and it would list available starting proficiencies based on:
-proficiencies keyed to which skills you took, and
-proficiencies keyed to which stats you chose to put points in.
-bonus proficiencies from scenario, profession, and traits (some of which may be automatically selected as a default).
You could of course learn proficiencies from books, npcs, or from practice. You might also get the option to select proficiencies as you level up your skill, I dunno... I'd want that option to require that you'd come into contact with the proficiency at least a little through reading or skill use.

Proficiencies would be a simple true/false. So, lockpicking would be a proficiency... If you lack it, you can attempt to pick a lock as a mechanics check, but at a severe disadvantage. With it, lockpicking is a basic mechanics check. Sailing would be another proficiency, drawing from the driving skill. Stuff like that.

I think this allows a more detailed skill system while also appreciating the general transferability of most skills, and keeping from having too huge a list of knowledges. It also means a character can start with a wide range of useful proficiencies.

[ollobrains]

I think starting proficiencies *should* be tied to starting profession.
But I also think they should be something that can be invested into, both at creation and during the game.

acquiring skills as u go, or bionic implants should also be an option.  During the game, reading, acquiring skills and maybe npc party members having skills as well could be an option

[chaoticag]

I'm not sure I would see the point of proficiencies as currently described. Right now it sounds like a hamper to keep you in the early game for a longer period of time and if the source of it all is books practice and npcs, then the expected player solution would be to mostly bee line for libraries, which are already a high value target in the early game.

Alternatively the player can just power through skill checks because anything that adds a penalty within the current interation (or at least the last time I played) helped you gain xp.

Not to mention that illiterate characters are going to be hit hard by this but since when have they not been hit hard by anything.

So let's take a bigger picture view of what the problem that proficiencies are meant to solve before we lay out what they ought to look like in game.

1. Over the long term, buying skills during character creation is a less optimal choice than grabbing traits and characteristics like fleet footed or more strength.
2. Currently a profession is a set of starting items and skills but nothing encourages the player to hold onto those items or further those skills.

This gives us a little bit of a disconnect from what the player says their character is and what they want out of their character. So let's say we consider it important for us to encourage that. We might also want to do that in a soft way so that people don't feel punished for not wanting to buy into it.

Now, falling into the routines of the old world sounds pretty comforting to me, so we can decide that some actions related to skills that you chose proficiency in give a slight moreale bonus capped to a fairly low ceiling so as not to be too abused, and these are based off of character creation, or can be taught by npcs, or very rarely during practice or reading. We can also have a trait added in that raises the cap of starting proficiency morale, but not for later acquired proficiencies, and a negative trait that flips starting proficiencies to give negative thoughts instead as they remind you of a world you can't go back to or whatever.

So I think I would rather things go if not this way then in this direction, as a soft support of player expression than a harder ish more limiting factor with a chance of becoming another item in an already long checklist.

[dpwb]

I understand your points raised there.
There are, however, plans to overhaul the skill gain system.

A proficiency that can just be spammed until you gain it, is useless as a concept, yes it could be considered a gating feature, but it also makes player starting choices more important and worthwhile.

For example there are proposals to replace skill gain from attempting things, with scripted training/practice activities, so to take lockpicking - if you don't choose the lockpicking proficiency at char creation, you can't just repeatedly try and pick a lock until you magically gain skill AND the proficiency.
Instead you could say.... find a lock mechanism, take it apart, consult a rare specialist book, spend a long time tinkering with it.

And although elongating the game time spent in the early/mid game could seem artificial and gamey, if it is done with care, and made to seem natural, it could remove a lot of criticism about becoming a demi-god within 2 seasons.

( caveat being I'm not the one pushing for any of these changes personally, I'm just relaying what I've seen the devs who are championing those changes say - and I hope I'm remembering accurately  - Erk would know more in this area. )

[scourge728]

you can't just repeatedly try and pick a lock until you magically gain skill AND the proficiency.

yes, because no one has ever learned how to do something by attempting it over and over until they figure it out

[dpwb]

you can't just repeatedly try and pick a lock until you magically gain skill AND the proficiency.

yes, because no one has ever learned how to do something by attempting it over and over until they figure it out

Starting from first principles with no instructions, no knowledge of technique or even the right tools to start with, you could practice on a lock for days before you got the "knack"
We could model that in game with an extremely low chance of success, but whats the point? the players got better things to do then take up days trying to learn how to pick locks when they could maybe find a book somewhere or an NPC who can teach it.

This isnt even mentioning more extreme examples like Sailing or Surgery - which would truly be impossible without years of prior knowledge.

The point remains that proficiencies could be a useful thing to stop players knowing everything and becomign demi-gods so early.