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Author Topic: Newbie here - A few questions  (Read 2070 times)

Sokar408

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Newbie here - A few questions
« on: March 07, 2015, 05:23:45 pm »

Hello everyone

So I have been looking at DF for years, and every time the graphics and the complexity is what ends up turning me away before even trying. Graphics isn't really important to me though, but usually even with graphics like RimWorld, or other management games, the graphics at least allows you to quickly see what is going on. I have yet to see anything, any video or screenshot of DF where I actually understood what was going on, by looking at it. I assume this can be overcome though, by experience.

Anyway enough of the rambling and on to the questions!

I know that the way you grow your fortress, is by migration waves (Not a huge fan of that, would have much prefered it to come through breeding or something), but do you have any control of them? For example if you setup a fortress thats supporting 40 dwarfs just fine, and then all of the sudden a wave of 40 more dwarves come along, and you have no way to support them before "rioting" starts to ensue. How do you prevent this?

How big is the world? (the actually map you plan in, not the "world"). For example in RimWorld, you get to pick, for example 200x200 squares.

What is the best "LP" of DF in your opinion, that I should watch to try and get a footing on the game?

Do you have any other advice, on for example the "Starter Pack" (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=126076.0)?

EDIT: Btw what sort of performance can i expect on this machine:

CPU: i7 Core 4790K
GPU: GTX 970
RAM: 16 GB
Storage: Samsung 830 SSD
« Last Edit: March 07, 2015, 06:34:28 pm by Sokar408 »
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Afghani84

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2015, 05:51:24 pm »

1) The first two(?) migration waves are hard-coded, so you will always get them. After that, you can set a population cap and keep the number of dwarves you have to deal with in check that way. It's not an exact number, so you might go a bit over (also through births) but it's a good estimate. If you are using the DF Starter Pack (which I would strongly recommend if you just started out) you can do this very easily via Lazy Newb Pack.

2) The size of the playable area depends on the size that you chose for yourself. For the common 3x3 embark, it would be 144x144 tiles. For more info, have a look here: http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Embark

3) Again...depends on what you're looking for. quill18 has some good ones but I would suggest watching one of the tutorials on YT since most LP's don't really explain a lot of mechanics. My suggestions would be Zemalf and/or captnduck.

4) Start playing without aquifers until you have a better understanding of the game. Look at some fortress designs to get an impression of the different vital parts. Otherwise, enjoy the inevitable FUN!! while playing DF and keep on trying over and over and over again! ;)

Oh...and welcome to the community!
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smakemupagus

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2015, 06:04:50 pm »

It's not like you automatically get riots just because you have new migrants.  It's quite easy (once you have played a couple forts know the basics) to have plenty of food, basic dormitories, and so on, so they'll be perfectly fine.  It takes a bit more effort to have enough constructive work for a huge migrant wave,-but this isn't something you really need to be so hung up on that you're afraid to even try the game.  It's really no big deal to have them idle for a little while.

The complexity isn't so bad, really.  For your first, say, 10 forts set yourself a simple goal for success.  Learn to just do one thing like mine, farm, stockpile and craft stone, cut wood, smelt metal and forge, make a well, make a dorm, make a meeting hall.  Only once you know a few things embark on a "serious" fort that you intend to survive for years, and even then know that you'll probably die to flooding or goblins a few times.  Lots of other games hold your hand a bit through the tutorial, but here that's not built into the game yet.  So you have to set your own mini challenges, or follow along with a tutorial writer like captnduck, or the start guides on wiki, or whatever.  It's really not that bad.

Good luck!

Your mind does really adapt to even the basic ASCII quickly (it's easier to understand in motion than in static screenshots, actually) but there are so many graphics packs available that I hope there's one that suits you.  If not, well, the artists in the community did their best to make them over the period of many years, so there's not much more we can do for you on demand.

Sokar408

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2015, 06:20:43 pm »

It's not like you automatically get riots just because you have new migrants.  It's quite easy (once you have played a couple forts know the basics) to have plenty of food, basic dormitories, and so on, so they'll be perfectly fine.  It takes a bit more effort to have enough constructive work for a huge migrant wave,-but this isn't something you really need to be so hung up on that you're afraid to even try the game.  It's really no big deal to have them idle for a little while.

The complexity isn't so bad, really.  For your first, say, 10 forts set yourself a simple goal for success.  Learn to just do one thing like mine, farm, stockpile and craft stone, cut wood, smelt metal and forge, make a well, make a dorm, make a meeting hall.  Only once you know a few things embark on a "serious" fort that you intend to survive for years, and even then know that you'll probably die to flooding or goblins a few times.  Lots of other games hold your hand a bit through the tutorial, but here that's not built into the game yet.  So you have to set your own mini challenges, or follow along with a tutorial writer like captnduck, or the start guides on wiki, or whatever.  It's really not that bad.

Good luck!

Aquifers and flood? :O

Your mind does really adapt to even the basic ASCII quickly (it's easier to understand in motion than in static screenshots, actually) but there are so many graphics packs available that I hope there's one that suits you.  If not, well, the artists in the community did their best to make them over the period of many years, so there's not much more we can do for you on demand.
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krenshala

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2015, 06:21:34 pm »

One thing to keep in mind with the "graphics" is that the tileset you are using can greatly influence how easy it is to make out what is going on in the current view.  To this end, I ended up picking a very legible (to me) tileset (Talryth_square_15x15) from the tileset repository.  You may find a different one better, and there are a large selection to choose from.

The nice part is, the tilesets are just a graphics file you put in <DF dir>/data/art/, and then update <DF dir>/data/init/init.txt (or is it d_init.txt?) to use that new tileset instead of the default non-square tileset.  If you wanted to, you can also directly edit a tileset to make specific changes you are interested in (restart DF to get it to see the change).

Changing the population cap is in <DF dir>/data/init/d_init.txt, by the way.
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Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

Sokar408

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2015, 06:33:16 pm »

One thing to keep in mind with the "graphics" is that the tileset you are using can greatly influence how easy it is to make out what is going on in the current view.  To this end, I ended up picking a very legible (to me) tileset (Talryth_square_15x15) from the tileset repository.  You may find a different one better, and there are a large selection to choose from.

The nice part is, the tilesets are just a graphics file you put in <DF dir>/data/art/, and then update <DF dir>/data/init/init.txt (or is it d_init.txt?) to use that new tileset instead of the default non-square tileset.  If you wanted to, you can also directly edit a tileset to make specific changes you are interested in (restart DF to get it to see the change).

Changing the population cap is in <DF dir>/data/init/d_init.txt, by the way.

Oh nice. Though the link you provided gives no image that is viewable :(
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Thisfox

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2015, 06:44:03 pm »

Set goals: My recommendation to newbies is the same as written above: Set yourself a simple goal and try to reach it for the first fort, and ignore the other parts, till you get to the point that you can run a fort consistantly. Typical goals: Food, drink, traps, beds and bedrooms for every dwarf, a working morgue/coffin factory, Stenching rooms indoors without miasma transmission, a military, etc. Later on my goals get bigger, whether it be "make a marble aquifer fed dining hall to rival my greatest fantasys" to "make three aquifer fed fountains, one at surface, one at midlevel and one at magma level, complete with a statue garden for each".... etc.

Tilesets: I don't recommend finding an aftermarket tileset. I still can't understand the pictures people show using their own incomprehensible tilesets, and the original tiles are so easy to learn, and make so much more sense to me. If I'm going to force myself to learn some way of seeing the graphics, I'd stick to the original ones. Why force yourself to learn some fancy tileset, then force yourself to learn the originals eventually anyway? Makes no sense to me. But by all means, do what makes you able to play, not what makes it easier for other people to play. I might be a grumpy old codger with no idea how the kids do play.

Learning curve: Do be aware that you are going to have deaths, a lot of deaths, early on in your gameplay. Dorfs are going to die. Just start again, and start again. That is the way of the world. Reclaiming old forts is buggy, just warning you. Really buggy. Better to repeatedly start again in a new location. I have a world on file I refer to mentally as Aquifer World. It has about 20 forts on it I made specifically for learning how to aquifer correctly. The forts are disaster areas, with no beds, often starving to death, but I learned how to aquifer, and now I have successful forts on my more favoured worlds with fountains, aquifer pierces, and other such things. It's a learning curve.
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Sadrice

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2015, 07:17:34 pm »

Oh nice. Though the link you provided gives no image that is viewable :(
Huh, I'm having trouble viewing images too.  That page worked fine last week.  The wiki must be having problems or something.

As for tilesets and graphics, I would highly recommend learning the traditional ASCII, though you may want to change to the built in square version.  It honestly isn't really harder to learn than more graphically rich options.  The glyphs are small enough that you'll have to k over it until you learn what it is anyways.  I prefer Dorten, a 9x9 tileset that is basically just a different font for ASCII, but has the (very nice) addition of diagonal smoothed walls.

As for starting out, just go for it, it's not as hard as people like to pretend.  Priorities for a fortress are: food, booze, places for your dwarves to hang out, work, and sleep, and an overarching design that does all these things while keeping them safe.  Food and booze supply can be tricky for new players, because farming is sometimes a bit of a pain, and has an odd interface.  Thankfully, there's a solution, which has gotten even better in recent versions.  Bring an herbalist, designate a plant harvesting zone (i, designate with enter, g) somewhere that has vegetation, maybe build a stepladder or two.  Voila!  More food and booze than you can shake a stick at.  This is better for booze than food.  Bring livestock.  Dogs are good, pigs are good, poultry are great (turkeys are best, but take two years to mature, peafowl are pretty good and mature in one year, geese have fewer eggs, more meat, and mature in a year.  I prefer geese, but any of those work well).  For poultry, build a nest box (built out of wood or stone at a craftsdwarf's workshop, with the wood or stone crafting labors, not masonry and carpentry).  There you go, food and booze.  Make some bedrooms and a secure front gate, and you're ready for almost anything.
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krenshala

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2015, 08:40:24 pm »

The link worked just fine when I tried it a moment ago.

I second the "learn the ASCII display" bit, as it ensures you can always tell whats going on.  And there are quite a few tileset entries on that page that do not do any replacement of the defaults (e.g., Talryth's, which is one of the reasons I'm using it).
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Quote from: Haspen
Quote from: phoenixuk
Zepave Dawnhogs the Butterfly of Vales the Marsh Titan ... was taken out by a single novice axedwarf and his pet war kitten. Long Live Domas Etasastesh Adilloram, slayer of the snow butterfly!
Doesn't quite have the ring of heroics to it...
Mother: "...and after the evil snow butterfly was defeated, Domas and his kitten lived happily ever after!"
Kids: "Yaaaay!"

Terff

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2015, 10:21:29 pm »

The wiki is an exceptional source for people to figure out how to start playing and to help them learn what everything is.  Theres a noob guide that really helped me learn how to play the game and I suggest it over any LP.
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Quote from: Lectorog on August 06, 2013, 03:57:45 pm

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Wheeljack

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2015, 08:14:28 am »

First of all, welcome!  Dwarf Fortress is a game with a huge learning curve, but once you really start to get your feet wet, the hassle of getting over the first few - or hundred - hurdles is completely worth it. When I first started learning this game, I had a lot of false starts. I even put the game down for over a year because the ASCII frustrated me to no end. I could puzzle out the commands and get started but even to this day, years later, the ASCII still gives me trouble.

I know most everyone here is suggesting you learn it anyway, but it can be something you do later, honestly. I just could not enjoy the game until I finally installed a graphics pack. I use Phoebus' set from the lazy newb pack. It's my favorite, but there are a lot of other good ones, so I would suggest looking around if you want to go with a graphics pack for learning the game.

The important thing is to take things in small doses, or chunks, and learning the ASCII symbols would definitely need to be a chunk all of its own when you decide to tackle it. One thing that helped me, is to start a fort with a graphics pack, get it going, and then switch back to the default. This way you have an idea of where everything is and you can 'k' look over everything to see what the different symbols are.

As for your other questions, while migration is the main way of building the fort population, you can build it more organically as well. It's just harder to do currently with all the changes to breeding and emotions. If you go with a starter pack, all of them should have a way to set both your pop cap, and you strict pop cap. The first one is used to mainly control how many dwarves are moving into your fort. Set this lower. I typically set mine at 20 for a brand new fort and then increase it as I need more dwarves. If you set the strict pop cap higher than the first, then births are allowed up to that number. I plan on doing a bit of a noah's ark fort where only the original seven and the harded coded first two waves are allowed into the fort. Every other citizen will be born there.

There are several different world sizes, and once you go to embark, you can set the size of your embark location from a measly 1x1, up to a pretty big size. Not sure what the max is, as my computer doesn't like anything over 4x4. You can also do embarks like 1x4, 2x3, etc. I'd do a couple of false starts to get an idea of how big each embark size is. It's one thing to give the tile numbers, but it's another to actually be in game and panning around to get a feel for just how big or small it's going to be. Default 3x3 is good for learning, however. Just remember smaller worlds and smaller embarks are typically kinder on your FPS. I'd suggest playing around with it and seeing how your computer handles larger worlds after getting your feet wet with the game.

Finding a good LP really depends. As someone else suggested though, I'd find a tutorial on YT, instead of a LP. I tried finding one when I was learning but there was something that usually made it unbearable for me. Either they couldn't speak clearly, they rushed and skipped over things, or I couldn't understand them because of an accent. There's a lot more stuff to be found now, but be aware of what version they're playing for the video. Most of the popular videos are for 34.11, and there are some big changes from those versions to current. Not big enough that they're useless, but enough that things might not work quite how you expect and it can be frustrating if the video says one thing and then it doesn't work for you.

As for advice, I will re-stress taking small steps. As others have said, set goals for each fort. Start small. Bring lots of food and booze if you don't want to worry about it right off the bat. Ditch the anvil and use the extra points for fish or booze or both. You won't need the anvil until you want to mess around with making weapons and armor. If you use a starter pack, you could even turn off invasions for your first fort or the first few until you want to learn how to fight. I use the Lazy Newb Pack. Most of them are pretty similar, but they all deserve a look. Aquifiers are hard at first. I'd suggest turning them off for your first games. Do what Thisfox did later. Start a world just for learning how to punch through them. Water in general can be dangerous, so be prepared for a lot of losses to drowning and pressure causing flooding.

And my biggest piece of advice? Don't be afraid to ask questions once you start. No matter obvious the answer may be to us, we're a good bunch that like helping each other out and having fun. That and be patient. If you get too frustrated with something, take a break, hit up the forums to ask why it's not working. Try again the next day. You're going to lose a lot of forts, but each one you learn and then suddenly you've been pulled in and things start clicking and suddenly the whole game just opens up.

Totally worth the learning curve and the time it took to surmount it for me. The complexities give this game so much life. It's been one of my staples for a long, long time. I may put it down for long stretches of time, but I always come back to it. Definitely a game to withstand time. It doesn't pretend to be anything but what it is.

Have fun dwarfing it up and experimenting!

Edit: Spelling, and whoops word wall.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 08:20:11 am by Wheeljack »
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Methadone

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2015, 03:40:22 pm »

I've always used mayday tileset, as it came with the first copy of DF I had so I ended up learning it. And while I'm sure the ASCII tileset is perfectly fine once you learn, I had trouble with things like dots and commas covering the screen. Give me pretty grass any day.
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Putnam

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2015, 06:16:00 pm »

I've always used mayday tileset, as it came with the first copy of DF I had so I ended up learning it. And while I'm sure the ASCII tileset is perfectly fine once you learn, I had trouble with things like dots and commas covering the screen. Give me pretty grass any day.

You can remove the varied grass textures in one of the init files.

ShadowDragon8685

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2015, 09:23:13 pm »

The Lazy Newb pack has many nice graphical sets built into it. The ASCII is basically impossible to understand, a graphical set... Less impossible. :)

Use one of them. Look at some screenshots to get an idea of which one you like and go with it.
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Terff

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Re: Newbie here - A few questions
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2015, 11:14:33 pm »

The ASCII is basically impossible to understand

Actually I find it quite easy to understand, but I am strictly a no graphics sets user so I guess I've grown accustomed to it

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I need some way to put armor on babies so I can start training them early.
Quote from: Lectorog on August 06, 2013, 03:57:45 pm

A goblin siege!?  Good we haven't had one in awhile, we are running out of new clothes
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