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[Peradon]

I do not know which is town. I'm leaning toward UXLZ as scum, mainly as a hunch though.

Usually when people do this sort of 'hunch read' fingerpointing, they at least include a small reason for it (tone, word choice, etc.), giving 'hunch' as your reason is not only empty air, it's almost literally useless. Please try to identify what's giving you that 'hunch' feeling, whether it's one of the things I mentioned above or something else. Otherwise I'll be forced to conclude you're just wildly clutching at straws (which isn't very effective hunting) or formulating 'reads' from empty air since you have difficulty creating them on your own (due to inexperience or being scum.)

I have a reason, but its going to be hard to say. I'll try...

UXLZ slightly encouraged me to continue to keep my eye on hector. She said that she could see how that post could be construed as buddying.

So here is what the experianced people have said about the buddying:

UXLZ: Can see it.
Nerjin: Can not see it.
Jack: Can not see it.

Lets assume that Hector is a scum trying to buddy. Either Jack lied about not seeing it, or Nerjin lied about not seeing it. The one who lied about is scum, and UXLZ is town.
If Hector is not scum, and was not buddying, then UXLZ is trying to get me to pursue a town, and is thus scum.
I'm tending to think right now that hector is not scum.
There are holes in this argument though, so thats why I didnt post it.

[UXLZ]

He*
Geez, people still think I'm a girl even with a male avatar. :v

Lets assume that Hector is a scum trying to buddy. Either Jack lied about not seeing it, or Nerjin lied about not seeing it. The one who lied about is scum, and UXLZ is town.
If Hector is not scum, and was not buddying, then UXLZ is trying to get me to pursue a town, and is thus scum.
I'm tending to think right now that hector is not scum.
There are holes in this argument though, so thats why I didnt post it.

You may have misinterpreted what I was saying to you earlier; essentially what message I was trying to impart is this:

Don't let other players tell you who to scumread or investigate; walk your own path. Buddying isn't a very good argument to try and lynch someone on, but if you think you're being buddied it's a good reason to keep a closer eye on that player. I'm encouraging you to pursue people you see as scummy.

[hector13]

Hector: Seeming OMGUS of Peradon, overtly emotional language in his voting post. (Slightly meta though not specific to Hector, in my previous game there was a scum player who'd get all sweary and angry every time he voted.)

Well I can't help being emotional, serious RL stuff, on top of previously mentioned RL stuff.

Looking back, it probably coloured my actions a bit (a lot) so unvote and apologies for language and harshness.

I would like to point out, UXLZ, that harsh language (like buddying) is not exclusive to scum. Are you using another person's meta to scumread me? 'Cause I don't think I could express how... silly that is.

I don't really have much else. Like UXLZ, I think ggamer and Cryxis are just new to mafia, and they haven't posted much for me to get a comfortable read on them.

Jack, though, might I inquire why you're voting for me? You had issues with what I was saying about D1, but didn't really comment in your reply to my answer to your questions.

ggamer, Cryxis we need more from you. What are your thoughts on the other players so far?

[UXLZ]

I would like to point out, UXLZ, that harsh language (like buddying) is not exclusive to scum. Are you using another person's meta to scumread me? 'Cause I don't think I could express how... silly that is.

That wasn't the harsh language I was talking about, I was talking about overtly emotional stuff like swearing. Whether it's someone else's 'meta' or not, it's fairly logical that a scum player may attempt to add more weight to their votes by emotional language and harsh accusations rather than actual evidence.
The main scumread is from the (seeming) OMGUS (though that's something newer players seem to do fairly often anyway), the other stuff is just extra. As I said though, those reads aren't amazingly strong (hence why I'm not voting.)

[ggamer]

ggamer: I meant, in this question, to ask about a bit more than your own vote.  This isn't RVS, even if some people are acting like it is.  We have material to analyze: a bunch of people's efforts to lynch roo, and some other discussion.  People voted at different times and with different reasons, and there is much to learn about the players from their actions D1 (and even from the actions so far D2).  Look through stuff, find something odd or questionable or interesting, and ask about it.

thank you for the advice, i'll take care of that later, i'm posting in time constraints right now.

ggamer: What was you're reason for voting rue? Were you just joining the bandwagon?

Gamer: Reasons are starting to slip at this point on the wagon. I'd like him to point out where Roo was getting overdefensive.

The main reasons I voted for roo were because I, as a newb, thought he was acting pretty scummy with all the schizophrenic behavior. Secondary reason is because everyone was focusing on him, and even if he wasn't scum he was distracting everyone from a thorough scumhunt.

Alright, a couple things that jumped out to me in D2 as sorta suspicious:

Roo's behaviour was anti-town, at best. They were encouraging people to vote for me sans evidence, which is what I initially thought was scummy about it.

So, Hector, you voted for roo because he was encouraging people to vote for you? I get that you might have been worried that he would start a bandwagon, but you should have enough experience to know that - at least the experienced players - would start looking for substantial evidence before they voted you.

I VOTED ROO BECAUSE IT WAS RANDOM VOTING, EVERYONE ELSE VOTED ON THEM AND I VOTED LAST MINUTE BECAUSE OF TIME RESTRAINTS

damn bruh chill the fuck out, you had maybe two or three votes on you, and blowing up only made people more suspicious.

Well considering that I'm going to get voted out any ways I don't think I need a replacement

Cyrixis, why are you so convinced that people are going to lynch you after a couple votes on the first day of D2? If what I can tell from looking at a couple other games is true, then you should have plenty of time to answer questions and suspicions before the pack strikes. Are you worried that people may find you out?

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

I'm not sure what I'm doing in this game or what I think of the others.


To the post above this one.
I've got time for the others because I don't have to read massive block texts. I do most of my posting at school and as long as I can read each post before going back to paying attention I'm good, I don't keep my place well when reading, and I can normally block texts my self because I can rember what I'm typing just not what I'm reading.

[hector13]

So, Hector, you voted for roo because he was encouraging people to vote for you? I get that you might have been worried that he would start a bandwagon, but you should have enough experience to know that - at least the experienced players - would start looking for substantial evidence before they voted you.

Of course. I voted him because he didn't have any evidence to back up his demand for everyone to vote with him. Would you not find that scummy too?

If other players had gone along with voting me after he made his demands, I'd probably be voting for them now, too.

[hector13]

DP because I'm silly.

That wasn't the harsh language I was talking about, I was talking about overtly emotional stuff like swearing. Whether it's someone else's 'meta' or not, it's fairly logical that a scum player may attempt to add more weight to their votes by emotional language and harsh accusations rather than actual evidence.

Mmm... not that logical really. It's a playstyle thing, I would imagine. A town player could do the same thing to add weight to their words too.

It's not something I'd like to be part of my meta though. I was just upset about RL things, and happened to express it here. Though obviously I can't prove that...

[Jack A T]

Spoiler: Peradon (click to show/hide)

Nerjin/UXLZ/Jack A T: Do you see the buddying that I mentioned, or am I just seeing things?

Peradon: Looking at that town read, the reasons, and when it was posted, I sort of see your point about the read.  It's essentially a mild town read for being on at the same time.  Comes off as fake a bit.

To answer your second question: Hectors read was based off of activity, which is not a scum-tell, nor a town-tell.

<<Eh.  It's a bit iffy in games like this with mass activity issues, but generally high activity is a mild town tell and low activity the opposite.  Scum generally doesn't want to risk revealing themselves more than they must risk.>>
... wait.

Hector: Most active person here. That is really the only thing going for you though, because we dont have much of anything on anybody. Town-Null read.

... So, just to be clear: you use activity as a mild town tell, yet view it as invalid as a town tell?  Do explain, Peradon.

As for the whole "ask the experienced players" thing, I understand wanting an outside opinion, but why so deferential to a group of people who could be, well, wrong?

Spoiler: hector13 (click to show/hide)

Because you're the only person posting, and you at least seem townie because of your activity and desire to see activity from everyone else.

hector13: This, around 9 hours into the day, as the reason for a mild town read, does not come off well.  It's essentially a mild town read for being on at the same time as you and before others.  Would you be so kind as to explain this?  Also, please clarify: what led you to decide to post this/what led you to post this read as a response to Peradon's question?

Naturally, I was reasonably convinced at the point he claimed "reaction test!" he was scum, so I thought it more likely that roo was trying to back out of a bad situation (3 votes on him at that point) by trying to explain it away as a reaction test.

So, confirmation bias.  Is this how you treat all defenses?

Jack, though, might I inquire why you're voting for me? You had issues with what I was saying about D1, but didn't really comment in your reply to my answer to your questions.

At that point, mostly pressure with the continued roo questioning.  Now, more pressure.

I don't think buddying is a big scumtell, because being friendly isn't exclusive to scum.

<<Buddying is more active, targeted ingratiation than passive friendliness.>>

Hector: Seeming OMGUS of Peradon

UXLZ: "Seeming"?

Nerjin: [...] strange actions for an IC.

Such as?

Hm… Maybe I’m not cut out for IC-ing as you keep delicately pointing out.

Nerjin: Not an intended message.

Now you're just sorta rolling with it.

Clarify/expand, please.

Roo's behaviour was anti-town, at best. They were encouraging people to vote for me sans evidence, which is what I initially thought was scummy about it.

So, Hector, you voted for roo because he was encouraging people to vote for you?

ggamer: What do you think of the next two words after "vote for me": "sans evidence"?

I'm not sure what I'm doing in this game or what I think of the others.
[...]
I've got time for the others because I don't have to read massive block texts. I do most of my posting at school and as long as I can read each post before going back to paying attention I'm good, I don't keep my place well when reading, and I can normally block texts my self because I can rember what I'm typing just not what I'm reading.

Cryxis: <<Oh dear.  Mafia is, as you've noticed, a game of walls of text.  Do you think you can handle this with the time you have?>>

[Peradon]

... So, just to be clear: you use activity as a mild town tell, yet view it as invalid as a town tell?  Do explain, Peradon.

As for the whole "ask the experienced players" thing, I understand wanting an outside opinion, but why so deferential to a group of people who could be, well, wrong?

Actually, thats a good point. I forgot I said that. I cant really explain, because I guess I was having a double standard there. I guess I was interpreting hector's town read on me with the preconcieved idea that he was trying to buddy me.

There is more of a chance of me being wrong, than you guys being wrong. This is my third game, the second of which I was lynched day one as town. My idea's of buddying may be different than an experianced players idea's. Thus I had to ask.


I'm going to vote for Nerjin. He didnt really give a good explanation for his vote on roo, which comeing from an IC, I see as suspicous.

Also, I might not get a chance to post again before the end of the day, so I wanted to cast my vote now. Also, do note that we are all voting for different people, and unless we have a majority by the end of the day, we get a No-Lynch.

[Jack A T]

Quick post: Right, we are nearing the end of the day.  Extend.

[UXLZ]

UXLZ: "Seeming"?

'Seeming' implying that it appears that way to me, but I may have missed something (for instance suspicions from Hector on Peradon since D1 or someting.) An OMGUS is quite a hard accusation against somebody... At least directed towards non-newbies. If you'd done the same thing as Hector it's likely you would have rocketed right to the top as scummiest on my suspect list.

Such as?

Lack of activity is the foremost. Generally one would sign up for ICship expecting to be around for the game. Unfortunately, it seems in Nerjin's case RL intervened, though I think his activity has been surprisingly low regardless (though that may be me misunderstanding the scope of how much it got in the way.)
By my last count he had the lowest number of posts in the entire game, though he may have overtaken Gamer at this point.
His vote on Roo despite seemingly reading him as town is something I believe is scummy under all circumstances, though this may be our conflicting philosophy.

<<Buddying is more active, targeted ingratiation than passive friendliness.>>[/img]

As an example of (highly successful) buddying, here's a PM (so it was private) I sent to someone (sorry NQT) during my previous game. How many of you think you would have picked up on it as buddying without knowing beforehand that I was scum? (Though do note you're all missing a fair amount of context. The Medium is a role with access to the deadchat while alive, by the way.)

Spoiler: Example (click to show/hide)

Blehhh, this day is looking chaotic already and I don't think I have the ability in me to work solo any more. I need someone to trust, and I've decided on you. This may end up being a catastrophic mistake, but from last night's occurrences I believe I can fairly assume that there are no more third party roles of particular danger (unless one of them is Pisskop.) I can conclude that you are not a Xenozoologist, Harvester, Mind Stealer (this one wouldn't be too bad) etc due to the lack of abductions. I find Exterminator unlikely, and while the risk of you being a Dopp is still there... Well, it may be me not understanding the nuances of this particular class, but it seems like killing me would be the wrong idea regardless and this reveal to you would be a pointless waste of time rather than a recipe for failure. Anyway, with my reasons for deciding to trust you out of the way, and my potential embarrassment for if I am wrong sealed, let's get on with this.

I am the Medium. Any comments of mine in these spoilers will be in purple. Otherwise, assume that it is the deceased person talking.

Anyway, here's a few posts from the deadchat that seem somewhat useful. The big post from Flabort we can discuss if you want to, I haven't really put in any comments on it.
If you have any questions to ask the deadchat I can relay them.

... (Snipped stuff from the dead chat for the sake of using this as an example in BM LIII) ...

You seem to have claimed to have the evidence necessary to blow the case out of the water so my contribution may not be necessary. Regardless, please ask if you need any help.

Note: If you deem it necessary go ahead and quote this PM in the main thread, but I'd prefer it if you didn't do so unless it was urgent.

PPE: Oh, these games have extensions? Extenderino.
I don't think there was a single day during Paranormal that wasn't extended to the max...

[hector13]

This, around 9 hours into the day, as the reason for a mild town read, does not come off well.  It's essentially a mild town read for being on at the same time as you and before others.  Would you be so kind as to explain this?  Also, please clarify: what led you to decide to post this/what led you to post this read as a response to Peradon's question

The post in question, seeing as you failed to produce that...

What lead me to post that was exhaustion, mostly. It wasn't answering his question ("what does that have to do with buddying") because I didn't understand the question. I think I was trying to explain my read in relation to the paragraph before his question. Evidently my sleep deprived brain chose to assume what he was asking and answer that question instead.

And so what if my mild town read doesn't come off well? Peradon was actively trying to get people to talk after a D1 in which the only information we had was from a wagon in which everyone was on, and a ridiculous conversation. Why would scum want to get players talking in that situation? A quiet town is a dead town. This was learned in the last BM game Peradon and I played in, during which there were 2 pages of content generated on D2, most of which was an argument between two townies. A clean sweep by the scum was had.

So, confirmation bias.  Is this how you treat all defenses?

Should I not expect more of him? He indulged in some extremely scummy behaviour by encouraging other people to follow his lead in voting me without a reason. Three people proceeded to vote for him, and then he backs out of it with his claim of reaction test. I think that's known as a refuge in audacity? (genuine question)

He unvotes me and then doesn't really do anything else. He voted Peradon for a spurious reason (apparently saying he wasn't vanilla) so it had looked as though he was trying to invent another case, but then goes quiet, like he'd resigned himself to being lynched. Not a big deal, given the entire town was on his wagon, but I can't change my read if he doesn't do something for me change it.

Jack(Jake?), is there any particular reason you decided to choose to pressure me? Everyone else was on the wagon, and you did say you thought my vote was reasonable. (in the spoilered section)

UXLZ, you've had time to go over the game, but you're being very reactive, answering questions but not asking anything. You don't seem to be doing much, if any, scumhunting. Why is that?

I shall also extend.

[Cryxis, Prince of Doom]

Post #248
Ya I can handle this, I'll just be posting as I normally have been. Either in the morning or at night or if I somehow find time during the day.

[Silthuri]

The Day has been extended! Day 2 will end Monday, March 9, 2015 at 4pm EST.

Votecount:

Cryxis, Prince of Doom: Nerjin
Peradon: Cryxis
UXLZ:
ggamer:
hector13: Jack A T
Jack A T:
Nerjin: Peradon

Not voting: hector13, UXLZ, ggamer