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Author Topic: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition  (Read 76874 times)

Duuvian

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #240 on: May 28, 2021, 11:09:23 pm »

Does anyone know anything about something called Xstream? I found it in my meqameklog, was wondering if it's something with the opensource java

Spoiler: Odd thing in logs (click to show/hide)

I did a search on it and it says it's recommended to use a white list for the version the open java thingy that's recommended. Is that good advice?

When one wants to provide a scenario (not campaign) save to the github, and they request logs for that, which logs are they seeking and can I still send them if I've played MekHQ campaign past where that scenario occured?

My guess is that it's too late, and it overwrites the logfile each time MM is opened? I found a funny bug where I had a Wasp that could only use a grapple attack for some reason, and it managed to land it with some luck on a quad-mech (four legs). Now I've learned firstly that was a bad move for the Wasp as torso mounted weapons can fire while grappled, and the quad mech seems to basically be all torso weapons while the Wasp lacks them completely. The second is that this odd combination of actions has caused Princess bot to be unable to figure out what to do; presumably what a quadmech should do while grappled I think.

https://github.com/MegaMek/megamek/issues/2882

I still have the campaign but I would have replayed the scenario and gone past it; didn't know I'd need MM logs too oopsie; can I still find them someplace such as a parallel .txt save when an MM game is saved?
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 11:23:16 pm by Duuvian »
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Iceblaster

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #241 on: May 29, 2021, 07:34:29 pm »

So as someone who likes mech stuff on a surface level -think 'wow robotech is so cool looking-, gave it a download, haven't given it a play yet, it looks like it'll be a p faitfhul adaptation of battletech right? If so, how easy is it for a newb to get into playing for fun?

Xardalas

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #242 on: May 30, 2021, 01:22:25 am »

So as someone who likes mech stuff on a surface level -think 'wow robotech is so cool looking-, gave it a download, haven't given it a play yet, it looks like it'll be a p faitfhul adaptation of battletech right? If so, how easy is it for a newb to get into playing for fun?
. It can be as faithful as you want it to be. You have a pretty wide range of options in megamek to enable or disable rules you don't like. I think it's fairly easy to get in to, worse but might be dealing with quirks of the system, but everyone here is usually pretty quick to help out. I could walk you through a game later of you'd like!
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Robsoie

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #243 on: May 30, 2021, 03:54:44 am »

I had never played Battletech before, only knew it from reading articles about it, all i played in that game universe were the Mechwarrior 1 to 4 games .
But i got used to Megamek rather quickly (you don't have to enable all the myriad of advanced rules options that would make it more complex). After that Megamek/Battletech is a wargame/boardgame type of game so if you like that type of gameplay it's good, if not you'll probably not spend much time on it.
A quick start tutorial :
https://sites.google.com/site/fineartofmechcombat/home/megamek-quick-start-tutorial

I have yet to try the latest version as i'm still wondering about the new java version, is openjdk11 a really solid version of java (i mean will it not give it trouble to other games made with lesser java version ?) ?
I find it odd that on the Oracle website they still recommend java8 instead ot their own latest version of java.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2021, 04:01:59 am by Robsoie »
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Duuvian

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #244 on: May 30, 2021, 11:09:34 pm »

I don't know sorry, MekHQ is the only Java game I've played recently. I've been using the Openjava 11 thing; I think I saw a version past 11 on their page but can't remember for sure. I don't know if it's backwards compatible or not.

I guess I will just post on the github that I don't have the logs for that save, doh. I'll have to remember next time I report a scenario savegame that I try to find them. I tried to follow the directions in the bug report but I must have missed where it says what logs should be provided with a save and where the default directory in the MekHQ folder they go to. Oops.

I also figured out when you post a new issue, that's where it lists what to include in the post, in the textbox, and has you delete it after you follow the direction. I thought I saw it somewhere else before too, maybe it was on the Battletech forums or something.

About the Xstream thing in the OpenJava 11, here is where I saw that it's recommended to use a white list (I have no idea how to do a white list or how to jam MekHQ through it)
https://stack.watch/product/xstreamproject/xstream/

I don't know how reliable that site is, I just found it on a search for what I saw in the log. However it says this:

Recent Xstreamproject Xstream Security Vulnerabilities
XStream is a Java library to serialize objects to XML and back again

CVE-2021-21341 7.5 - High - March 23, 2021

XStream is a Java library to serialize objects to XML and back again. In XStream before version 1.4.16, there is vulnerability which may allow a remote attacker to allocate 100% CPU time on the target system depending on CPU type or parallel execution of such a payload resulting in a denial of service only by manipulating the processed input stream. No user is affected who followed the recommendation to setup XStream's security framework with a whitelist limited to the minimal required types. If you rely on XStream's default blacklist of the Security Framework, you will have to use at least version 1.4.16.


When I search for Xstream on my computer, it shows version 1.4.14 which I don't think is at least version 1.4.16 (I'm guessing)
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 12:17:48 am by Duuvian »
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Iceblaster

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #245 on: May 31, 2021, 10:18:03 am »

Thanks, I'll get back to you guys if I need assistance when I get to playing this!

JWNoctis

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #246 on: May 31, 2021, 08:49:08 pm »

XStream is a Java library to serialize objects to XML and back again. In XStream before version 1.4.16, there is vulnerability which may allow a remote attacker to allocate 100% CPU time on the target system depending on CPU type or parallel execution of such a payload resulting in a denial of service only by manipulating the processed input stream. No user is affected who followed the recommendation to setup XStream's security framework with a whitelist limited to the minimal required types. If you rely on XStream's default blacklist of the Security Framework, you will have to use at least version 1.4.16.

Depending on what they used that library for, I -think- the worst that might happen from this was forcing a MP host to lock up, and waste a tiny bit of electricity in the form of CPU power consumption.

A grave concern for a web server, but only the metaphorical equivalent to flipping the game board here.

EDIT: Yes, not even the metaphorical table - Probably won't crash the host's computer outside the most marginal cases, either.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2021, 09:17:32 pm by JWNoctis »
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Robsoie

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #247 on: June 01, 2021, 04:38:02 am »

I have yet to try the latest version as i'm still wondering about the new java version, is openjdk11 a really solid version of java (i mean will it not give it trouble to other games made with lesser java version ?) ?
I find it odd that on the Oracle website they still recommend java8 instead ot their own latest version of java.

I have googled a bit more , for those interested :
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/54439762/java-jdk-11-breaking-old-jars-programs
So basically using java11/openjdk11 on a program made for java8 may work or may not, depending on what kind of java class/feature said program is using (as apparently java11 dropped some of them).
Not really in the mood to make tests myself so i'll wait to see if other java-based program i use decide to update their version of java before thinking about playing recent megamek.
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Rince Wind

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #248 on: June 03, 2021, 03:21:19 am »

Thanks, I'll get back to you guys if I need assistance when I get to playing this!

Hanzoku did an AAR ages ago. Older version of course, but good to learn the basics. At least that is what brought me to play it.
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lastverb

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #249 on: June 17, 2021, 01:57:04 pm »

I wanted to play this, but damn it's hard on new players that don't know how to cheese AI. AtB rules are heavily stacked against a player to compensate for AI.

I'm talking about enemies generated on a mission. Let's take player using medium lance. It is LEAST stacked against. Player lance is considered specific weight class only based on tonnage - you always want to max it out for this class. Max for medium lance is 200 tons. Now, what enemies AtB rules generate for you:
  • Your enemies have either: 2 light lances, 1 heavy lance or 1 medium + 1 light lance
  • Worst case scenario (1/6 chance) enemy lances are either: light lance- 2 light mechs + 2 medium, medium lance - 3 mediums + 1 heavy, heavy lance - 3 heavies + 1 assault
  • Remember tonnage limit on your 'medium' lance? 200 tons. While 4 medium mechs can weight 220 tons. AI doesn't have such limits, those mechs can be heavies in their bracket. This means you can face up to either: 360 tons (2L), 325 tons (1H), 420 tons (1M+1L).
  • Here comes enemy faction bonuses - steiner changes medium mech in light lances to heavy adding 20t to upper limit, does the same to all but worst case scenario of medium lance.
  • Not enough? There is reinforcment mechanic. If you have other light or medium (player maximum tonnage for a lance applies) assigned to specific missions AND it didn't have mission generated for this week you have 2/6 (light) or 1/6 (medium) chance it will join you in battle. AI have similar reinforcments, except it counts as there is always medium and light lance available.
  • So far so good. Your mechs can be better designed (let's hope you chose possibility to use custom refits) and with better tech than enemies. You puny inner sphere, medieval-like, idiots. Here come clans. THEY ARE THE BETTER TECH and have much better designs than most inner sphere mechs. Do I forget something? Oh right they don't use 4 mech lances but 5 mech stars. This adds 1 medium (up to 55t) mech to enemy light setup or 1 heavy mech (up to 75t) to enemy medium or heavy setup.
  • Here goes your mighty 200 ton lance that in worst case (this means often) fights 1 enemy medium lances and 1 light lance with additional 1 medium lance of reinforcement. You fight easiest enemies - not Steiner or clans. This means enemy can bring up to ONLY 660 tons. Want to fight clans? Prepare to face up to 865 tons of better enemies.
  • Yes it means LEAST stacked against player lance can and often will fight enemies 3+ times heavier than themselves.
  • Even in best case scenario, with much lower chance than worst case - basic inner sphere enemy with lowest roll on lance build and lowest rolls on all mechs, with no reinforcement, your lance can face enemies with equal tonnage!

While mekhq has tons of settings for everything, this cannot be changed in anyway, I think. Except recompiling source yourself.
Yes i know you can use GM (cheat options) to do basically what you want, but playing campaign (not quick battle, where you don't care about loses) without it, on basic rules requires you to cheese AI to do anything.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 02:02:20 pm by lastverb »
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Mini

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #250 on: June 17, 2021, 02:36:03 pm »

You can actually modify what enemy forces are generated for missions, it's all in the data/universe/atbconfig.xml file.

The "botforce" entries are for how many lances/stars are generated for a mission would be (LLM would be two light lances and one medium lance, for example), and the "botlance" entries are for how many units are in each of those groups (similarly to the force entries, HHAA is 2 each of heavies and assaults). I'm not sure whether stratcon missions use those or only the older scenarios, but my experience with stratcon so far suggests it uses a much larger degree of BV balancing so it's less of a problem, especially if you make use of leaving lances deployed to act as reinforcements. I haven't come up against clan enemies yet, but a) they are lorewise meant to be incredibly rough for the IS before advanced tech starts appearing in numbers and b) there's nothing requiring you to accept a contract against them in the first place.
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Duuvian

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #251 on: June 17, 2021, 10:44:25 pm »

I saw an Issues post too that said there might be an issue with it pulling BV calculations for a higher formation instead of the formation it's trying to, leading to inflated BV against your puny lance of meks.

In my campaign, I started as a training lance. After a period of training these green pilots, I had enough to give them Regular rank as mechwarriors and some leadership skills (the Veteran trainee lance leader I left retired). I used their personal savings as the starting C-Bills for the new unit, hired a random 4th person and support crew and went off to a contract.

As time went on, I bumped the Intensity setting up to 1. If you feel like a low intensity is cheesing it, you can also ceate a custom contract with a low contract payout to balance out the low intensity. I also started on Green difficulty as I think that loweres oppoent BV before I put it on Normal.

If you start in certain eras and you have the Era repair mods on, keep in mind your stuff will simply melt at the default settings when you are on contract. For era repairs, I set my repairs to only damage on a failure of 7 or more and set the Maint rolls to every 60 days. That way the stuff degrades but you won't constantly have to repair broken parts, only sometimes. In less penalized eras this could make it too easy and bypass the system though.

Once you have multiple lances, you can put them in a larger formation such as a company of three lances. If you put at least a single unit at the company level, you can deploy the whole company to your scenario through stratcon. However keep in mind that this will be what the objective success/fail for your own units will be based on, so if it's one mech and it dies it will fail your "Preserve 50% of Silly Company" scenario objective. I think a cool way to do that would be to have that be the "Company Command Lance" area since the preserve forces objective is based on that when you deploy a superior formation. Or have it be something like a Mobile Headquarters for the Company but you might want to make a special bot for it so it doesn't charge to it's death, single machine gun blazing.

I'm up to a Mech company, an infantry battallion with a mobile company, three aerospace squadrons, a vehicle and mobile artillery company, a mech training company and a training Vlance, a VTOL squadron spread out the vehicles and infantry, and a handful of logistics vehicles I tossed into a noncombat force. I have a large reserve of mothballed units for these as well; to be honest I need reserve crew more than I do reserve equipments. I do wish the rules were clearer in the program on when I should be limited to Personnel Market and when I can do bulk hires. I've only used Personnel market so far but it pains me to wait 8 months to accumulate enough VTOL pilots for a squadron of Warrior helicoptors. Then do that for Vehicles and then gunners for both etc; takes forever in game months. I'd much rather just go to Galatea and bulk hire a bunch of teenage trainees to stick in a death machine and put them through mercenary school (Cadre Duty training contract) or some such.

Remember that you can flee your units on the first turn if you know you will lose badly.

Another neat thing is that you can assign your units to a bot and have them wreck things for you. I do this most of the time to be honest. An easy way to almost always have a bot already on your team is to take contracts under House command. Then assign your units to the House Officer team, very easy. Otherwise it's Add Bot, select all your units with shift click, change owner to bot, change bot to team 1, change bot to a handsome color and off you go (if you use double blind you will have to make sure the bots on different teams have different deployment sides too)

Finally, if the scenario generator is setting large map dimensions, remember that you can change the dimensions in MM. A 25x25 map runs much much faster than a 60x60 map because of the way the bot calculates movement. The less map there is to calculate over, the faster the movement phases will be.

A good tip for a great cheap unit is around 3025 or so the Mechbuster conventional aircraft is introduced. It has an AC/20 in the nose and carries a whole bunch of air dropped bombs.... I'm going to buy a squadron of them once I'm done with this mission. I'm at B rating now, tons of techs and stuff. I need to sit and recruit for a year or so and I should be able to expand to a second mech company since my training company is sitting on enough XP for regular skill. The mechbusters don't seem to show up in the Unit Market (yet?). In fact I don't recall ever seeing conventional fighters in it, maybe that's a bug? I see VTOL sometimes but never any conventional fighters or bluewater naval units. It would be neat if each unit type had it's own tab instead of the 3 mech vehicle(+VTOL) and aerospace there is now.

I also shot down a few dropships and was able to salvage an Overlord and I think a Union and maybe one other. The Overlord is nice, carries about a whole company of mechs. I had 100% battle loss compensation so I haven't hesitated to throw my pilots at tough scenarios this time. The contract was extremely fortuitous, it was generated immediately after my previous one concluded and it was for Galatea... that place I go after most contracts anyways as it's a mercenary Hiring Hall. Now I have a few repairable dropships in mothballs until I can do a personnel search outside of contract again.

I'm going to restructure the ToE and increase it and then find some contracts before Outreach opens up in 2030.

Another good tip is to set the AtB enemy ratios to 1 mek, 2 mixed, and 10 vehicles. This will get you lots of vehicles which makes more sense from a lore standpoint imo but also is a little easier for a mech based unit because of the weaknesses of vehicles in return for their cheap c-bill cost in general.

Another would be don't hesitate to generate a new force for your allies if the scenario generated is just really lopsided. You can generate up to a whole regiment at a time with the last tab. Right click on the top formation, add to game, choose the force in the dropdown to add it to, and hit OK.

You can even add units like this during an ongoing game at any turn. It's under the Game menu somewhere IIRC, add units from RAT. I use it to add a few VTOL to a bot or to the player team if the bots can't locate each other due to low visibility. As soon as the VTOL sees one they beeline toward each other. It sometimes can find the last surviving unit before a BV victory is reached (I use a 90% BV destroyed victory setting for the bots). Finally adding a unit to my player force allows me to use commands again, so I can do two /victory or /defeat and end the scenario if the bots can't find the last unit or something.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 11:15:06 pm by Duuvian »
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FINISHED original composition:
https://app.box.com/s/jq526ppvri67astrc23bwvgrkxaicedj

Sort of finished and awaiting remix due to loss of most recent song file before addition of drums:
https://www.box.com/s/s3oba05kh8mfi3sorjm0 <-zguit

Rince Wind

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #252 on: June 18, 2021, 10:03:20 am »

Remember that you can recruit the prisoners with the asterisk next to their name. And I am pretty sure it is written somewhere that you can hire a full complement for your vehicles. There is nothing stopping you from bulk hiring when you feel it is appropriate either. The personal market is very restrictive. I've played huge A** units that had hardly anyone wanting to join without paying 100k/week to search for candidates.
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Dostoevsky

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #253 on: June 18, 2021, 02:27:08 pm »

Another would be don't hesitate to generate a new force for your allies if the scenario generated is just really lopsided. You can generate up to a whole regiment at a time with the last tab. Right click on the top formation, add to game, choose the force in the dropdown to add it to, and hit OK.

Pulling this part of the post to highlight it (good post throughout, though). Been a few versions since I played, but I made use of this in my campaigns to deal with the sometimes-lopsided enemy BVs. It's relatively easy to provide an allied force that's not powerful but still a decent help, e.g. helicopters or motorized infantry.
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FAA

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Re: MekHQ - "Just how does it work?" edition
« Reply #254 on: August 19, 2021, 03:57:16 am »

Are there any mods to be found? Mainly, there are too few faces so they keep repeating after a while, is there a mod that adds more?

Also, what happens if I breach a contract? Will my employer/Com Star go after me? What if it happens several times? Will I have to escape to the periphery?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2021, 04:06:35 am by FAA »
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