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[utunnels]

I wonder what is the harshest condition your dorfs can survive goblins sieges.

0) Embark with food, drinks and animals only.
1) No metals. That is you can't use metal items. To add more challenges, training axes are also banned.
2) No trading. You also can't loot the caravans.
3) No mechanism. This also means no draw bridges.
4) No stones. So you can't build furnaces.
5) ...?

So will the goblins slaughter them all?

[WillowLuman]

Theoretically you could construct wooden buildings after cutting down the logs with training axes, then survive long enough to train some truly badass defenders, but the ban on metal items means no digging (since no picks) so it would be extremely difficult. Said defenders would have to be legendary blockers, and would have to have enough stamina to outlast their foes, since most of their attacks aren't going to make it through armor.

But, again, extremely difficult, and success needs some luck on the goblins waiting a while before showing up.

[utunnels]

Yeah, training axe sounds like a bug.
Another reason I don't include stones is there's no stone weapons(except obsidian swords), since you can't mine, embark with stones sound like cheating.

Maybe I can limit populations to delay goblins sieges? I wonder how good legendary wrestlers are.

[WillowLuman]

Legendary wrestlers would be able to kill people through armor by snapping their limbs, but only one-on-one, otherwise their grappling attempts would get interrupted. Otherwise they'd need the endurance to tire out their enemies, occasionally getting lucky shots to the unprotected face, and kill them once they pass out.

Said legendary wrestlers would also need legendary dodging/shield user, and legendary striker/kicker/biter for unarmed non-wrestling strikes. Giving them shields would also allow them to train misc. object user, and with dense enough wood said shield bashes may be decisive.

You need the training axes thing. Otherwise they have no means of harvesting wood either, and thus the ONLY way to survive is both getting lucky enough for the goblins/other threats leave you alone long enough to train legendary Chuck Norris dwarves AND for your dwarves to survive the psychological effects of a building-free existence.

Unlike previous versions goblin attacks are neither automatic nor guaranteed if goblins are in range. Goblin armies have to physically travel from their sites to yours in order for an attack to occur, which may not necessarily happen. They might choose other targets instead, or they may get defeated before reaching you.

[§k]

If you infect the whole fort with were-mammoth virus...

[WillowLuman]

A bit difficult to do without everyone getting killed in the process, if you can't use mechanisms. Not to mention no guarantees that the gobbos will show up on a full moon.

[AbanShakehandles]

I wonder how good legendary wrestlers are.

A quick scrimmage in the arena:

1 Leather clad dwarf with Grand Master skills related to unarmed combat. Plus a candlenut shield and Grand Master shield user.
vs.
1 Goblin with a copper short sword, iron helm, breastplate, and shield. Leather trousers. Novice military skills.



Not even close.
The dwarf got the upper hand early landing some bruises with shield bashes, punches, and strikes.
It turned nasty when the biting started.
The goblin became enraged, and the dwarf passed out from over exertion, probably from punching an iron helm repeatedly (x49).

The goblin suffocated with his mangled left upper leg firmly locked between the dwarf's teeth.
A cursory perusal of the combat report doesn't show any choke holds.
Not sure why he suffocated.


At any rate, the dwarf was untouched.


Realistically, the battle would not be one on one, and the combatants would likely be more evenly matched ability-wise,
but yes, a bad-ass unarmed dwarf can certainly take on the average gobbo.

[Baffler]

If you allow training axes but none of the other stuff on that list, you can use a militia in leather armor with wooden (or bone) bolts and crossbows from an outdoor palisade to stop invaders, with dwarves living in equally cobbled together wooden buildings on the surface. It would probably be a highly spartan existence, but they'd survive.

[utunnels]

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I wonder how good legendary wrestlers are.

A quick scrimmage in the arena:

1 Leather clad dwarf with Grand Master skills related to unarmed combat. Plus a candlenut shield and Grand Master shield user.
vs.
1 Goblin with a copper short sword, iron helm, breastplate, and shield. Leather trousers. Novice military skills.



Not even close.
The dwarf got the upper hand early landing some bruises with shield bashes, punches, and strikes.
It turned nasty when the biting started.
The goblin became enraged, and the dwarf passed out from over exertion, probably from punching an iron helm repeatedly (x49).

The goblin suffocated with his mangled left upper leg firmly locked between the dwarf's teeth.
A cursory perusal of the combat report doesn't show any choke holds.
Not sure why he suffocated.


At any rate, the dwarf was untouched.


Realistically, the battle would not be one on one, and the combatants would likely be more evenly matched ability-wise,
but yes, a bad-ass unarmed dwarf can certainly take on the average gobbo.

I created a grandmaster westler (I know he's a bit over-powered). I gave him some leather armor and garments(no shield).

not armor user
grand master discipline
grand master observer
grand master fighter
grand master wrestler
grand master biter
grand master striker
grand master kicker
grand master dodger

The I created a goblin, with adequate fighter, swordsman, dodger, armor user, shield user, observer, etc. I gave him some troll fur and troll leather garments, iron helm, iron long sword, copper breastplate and iron shield.


Here's the logs:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 scratches Goblin 1 in the lower left back teeth and the severed part sails off in an arc!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the right upper leg with his right hand, bruising the muscle through the small troll fur trousers!
Dwarf 1: This is a fight!  I am not scared!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Goblin 1 attacks Dwarf 1 but He jumps away!
Goblin 1: This is a fight!  I am not scared!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the left foot with his right hand, bruising the muscle!
Goblin 1: Those injuries...  Begone fear!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 attacks Goblin 1 but He jumps away!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 attacks Goblin 1 but He jumps away!
Dwarf 1 kicks Goblin 1 in the third finger, right hand with his left foot, tearing apart the skin and bruising the muscle through the small troll leather right glove!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the upper body with his left hand, bruising the muscle and bruising the right lung through the small troll fur cape!
Goblin 1 is having trouble breathing!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 kicks Goblin 1 in the upper body with his right foot, bruising the muscle and bruising the liver through the small troll fur cape!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 grabs Goblin 1 by the upper right back teeth with his right upper arm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the lower body with his right hand, but the attack is deflected by Goblin 1's small copper breastplate!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the fourth toe, right foot with his right hand, tearing apart the skin and bruising the fat through the small troll leather shoe!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 strikes at Goblin 1 but the shot is blocked with the iron shield!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the upper body with his left hand, bruising the muscle and bruising the left lung through the small troll fur cape!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Goblin 1: I've been injured badly.  There is no hope!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the lower body with his right hand, bruising the muscle and bruising the stomach through the small troll fur trousers!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 kicks Goblin 1 in the left lower leg with his left foot, bruising the bone through the small troll fur trousers!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the left lower arm with his left hand, bruising the muscle through the small troll fur coat!
Goblin 1 misses Dwarf 1!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the right hand with his left hand and the injured part collapses!
An artery has been opened by the attack!
The Goblin 1 loses hold of the iron long sword.
The Goblin 1 gives in to pain.
The Goblin 1 falls over.
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his left hand, bruising the muscle through the small iron helm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his right hand, bruising the muscle through the small iron helm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his right hand, bruising the muscle and bruising the skull through the small iron helm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his left hand, bruising the muscle and bruising the skull through the small iron helm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his left hand, bruising the muscle through the small iron helm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his right hand, but the attack is deflected by Goblin 1's small iron helm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his left hand, bruising the muscle through the small iron helm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his left hand, but the attack is deflected by Goblin 1's small iron helm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his left hand, bruising the muscle, bruising the skull through the small iron helm!
Dwarf 1 punches Goblin 1 in the head with his right hand and the injured part collapses!
An artery has been opened by the attack!
Goblin 1 has been struck down.
Dwarf 1: Death is all around us.  The horror consumes me!
Dwarf 1: Our time in The Arena is so brief...  Begone fear!

Edit*

It seems there were some mistakes. All equipments were small version (kobold?).

[WillowLuman]

Arena view often shows stuff as "small." In reality it's the right size for whatever creature it spawned on.

[evictedSaint]

if you have no metal and no training axe and no trading, the only thing you'll have are clay huts and palisades, bone and leather armor and weapons, and three beds (if you allow use of the wagon components).

You won't even have any barrels or jugs (since jugs require stone or a kiln (which in turn requires coal (which in turn requires wood and stone))) beyond what you bring. 

I'm on the fence between "Challenging and Exciting" or "Too Limited and Boring".  It'll just be a bunch of dwarves rolling around in the mud, severely unhappy.

[utunnels]

Yeah, you are right, there won't be enough booze to make them happy.
So maybe wood cutting is necessery (beds, barrels, huts, etc).

[fearlesslittletoaster]

Keep in mind that no metal or stone and no training axe to cut down trees leaves you with a grand total of 3 logs to make workshops out of. If you wanted to make beds you would reduce the number of workshops you could have. Things like crossbows and leather armor require a workshop to make them.

[evictedSaint]

Keep in mind that no metal or stone and no training axe to cut down trees leaves you with a grand total of 3 logs to make workshops out of. If you wanted to make beds you would reduce the number of workshops you could have. Things like crossbows and leather armor require a workshop to make them.

If you have clay on the map, you can harvest it and use it to build other workshops and houses...can't you?  I forget, do you need stone to build the workshop that harvests clay?

[Sadrice]

You can get clay without a pick (place one of your logs on the ground as a floor and remove it, exposing the soil underneath), but in order to gather clay you need a kiln, which requires some sort of fire safe building material.

An axe might be brought by invaders.  I had a small and rather pathetic bandit group attack my fortress last night, with an axedwarf, spearelf, and some crossbow humans.  Not sure I would want to go up against them with naked starving mud wrestlers, though.

Ash is a firesafe building material. Do forest fires produce ash as a usable material, or just an ash coating on the ground?  Starting a fire would depend on having access to a fire breather or magma.  If you have surface magma, you could provoke a fire imp or other creature into starting a fire.