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Author Topic: Nobody Poops  (Read 43520 times)

Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #135 on: February 14, 2015, 10:41:28 am »

Many people have died if poison gas in mines, and we are slightly smarter than dwarves. Dwarves could just try to flee to the surface if others around them were passing out or dying from it. Mining is extremely dangerous even for those not permanently drunk.

I have dfhack installed, but have never actually used it. How are tunnelling invaders enabled? How good is the plugin?

DF is more hard to learn than hard to play, I agree, and I think that should change. There should be tutorials and easier UI for new players, and things like mining and farming should be much harder to compensate.
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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #136 on: February 14, 2015, 10:43:05 am »

Personally, I don't think that we need poop in DF.
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Vattic

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #137 on: February 14, 2015, 12:33:46 pm »

I have dfhack installed, but have never actually used it. How are tunnelling invaders enabled? How good is the plugin?
When I used it I never gave them much chance to dig and only saw them tearing down walls a couple of times. You can find it here, but it doesn't look like it's compatible with the newest version of DF. You'd have to go back to 0.34.11 to try it.
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lethosor

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #138 on: February 14, 2015, 01:47:09 pm »

I have dfhack installed, but have never actually used it. How are tunnelling invaders enabled? How good is the plugin?
When I used it I never gave them much chance to dig and only saw them tearing down walls a couple of times. You can find it here, but it doesn't look like it's compatible with the newest version of DF. You'd have to go back to 0.34.11 to try it.
Wrong - 0.34.11 was the first version that the diggingInvaders plugin was compatible with, but it has been included in every DFHack version since then.
Edit: The reason for that thread was that the plugin was being developed under 0.34.11, when DFHack releases were less frequent than they are now, so expwnent was only distributing builds of the plugin in that thread (which were usable with DFHack 0.34.11-r4).

Edit 2:
I have dfhack installed, but have never actually used it.
If you haven't made any DFHack-related changes, you probably are using many of its features (such as the search plugin, which provides search controls on many screens, parts of the tweak plugin, which fixes/improves the UI in various ways, dwarfmonitor, which displays date/weather/happiness information, etc.).
« Last Edit: February 14, 2015, 01:52:42 pm by lethosor »
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DFHack - Dwarf Manipulator (Lua) - DF Wiki talk

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Vattic

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #139 on: February 14, 2015, 02:38:37 pm »

I stand corrected. Couldn't find any mention of it in the DFHack readme.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #140 on: February 14, 2015, 05:36:14 pm »

I have the dfhack search functions, but I have not made changes to it. How can I activate digging invaders?
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lethosor

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #141 on: February 14, 2015, 06:07:20 pm »

"enable diggingInvaders" should work (the enable/disable commands work for most, if not all, plugins that can be enabled/disabled).
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DFHack - Dwarf Manipulator (Lua) - DF Wiki talk

There was a typo in the siegers' campfire code. When the fires went out, so did the game.

Uzu Bash

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #142 on: February 17, 2015, 11:07:31 pm »

Look at the grazing requirements of some of these animals. Where do you suppose all that vegetation goes? Have you ever been near a cow in it's own habitat? They're a far more renewable source of fertilizer than all those trees you're turning into potash.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #143 on: February 20, 2015, 09:43:10 am »

Look at the grazing requirements of some of these animals. Where do you suppose all that vegetation goes? Have you ever been near a cow in it's own habitat? They're a far more renewable source of fertilizer than all those trees you're turning into potash.

Absolutely.
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GoblinCookie

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #144 on: February 20, 2015, 05:32:56 pm »

Look at the grazing requirements of some of these animals. Where do you suppose all that vegetation goes? Have you ever been near a cow in it's own habitat? They're a far more renewable source of fertilizer than all those trees you're turning into potash.

The cows do not add fertility to the enviroment, they merely recycle it.  What actually adds fertility to the enviroment is nitrogen fixing plants like clover. 
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #145 on: February 20, 2015, 06:46:19 pm »

True, but if the cows did not excrete, nutrition would be taken from the soil and not replaced. Manure returns it.
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On the item is an image of a dwarf and an elephant. The elephant is striking down the dwarf.

For old times' sake.

Urist McGoombaBrother

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #146 on: February 20, 2015, 11:39:51 pm »

I would go so far to say, there even need to be different kind of fecals. Seriously. Fecals are one of the prime health indicators. Let's say you inspect a pile of junk. Then you can get one of several different descriptions. "Those are the fecals of Urist McPoopedThere. Everything seems normal." That's the best thing you can get. Others can be. "He seems to suffer light diarrhea/costiveness." This can indicate one of various issues. E.g. unbalanced nutrition or the beginning of an illness while heavy diarrhea/costiveness indicates that the illness broke out already. And when "contains blood" is added, Urist McPoor might be already in serious trouble. Depending on how often you get the various messages, it might be either a desease of only one or a few of your dwarfes or a serious plague endangering the entire fortress. Countermeasures like medicine or even quarantine in highly virulant cases need to be considered. But I guess that's far beyond the scope of simple sewer management, which was suggested initially. However, DF never attempted to be simple anyway. ;-)

Deboche

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #147 on: February 21, 2015, 01:39:28 am »

That's a good idea too. If they get in contact with some sort of magical infection it could say "These feces are purple in color. They seem to move of their own accord."

Also,

Urist, I don't think our dragon is in good shape.
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Urist Tilaturist

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #148 on: February 21, 2015, 06:39:27 am »

The possibility of dark magic animating crap and causing it to attack dwarves makes me even more eager to see it added to the game.
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On the item is an image of a dwarf and an elephant. The elephant is striking down the dwarf.

For old times' sake.

Symmetry

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Re: Nobody Poops
« Reply #149 on: February 26, 2015, 03:06:54 pm »

Except Toady has never said clearly either way. I may be mistaken, but I did some digging to try and find a definitive answer and that resulted in my first post in this thread.

Even if Toady had said either way a discussion wouldn't be unreasonable. Admittedly this debate has happened a number of times. I'd be surprised if there are any, but new points should be added to one of those threads.

In the quote I remember about this Toady said something along the lines of it could work, but he doesn't want to add any more breaks or actions to dwarves that get in the way of their work.  They already spend ages wandering off to eat, drink, sleep, party etc.

I want sewage in for lots of reasons but he's right, the core gameplay of how dwarves make decisions would need to be overhauled.  It could already do with something, like a dwarf knowing he'll be in the mines all day so he should take a packed lunch, or realising he doesn't need to go back to his own bed right now and can use a nearby bunk instead.  I think people then suggested just doing it right after eating or something so we can have toilets near dining rooms.

I'm annoyed I can't find the quote, it was a transcript of something.  Maybe a DFTalk or maybe an external interview.
He may have changed his mind since then.

But anyway, the point about action selection in dwarves is probably worth a suggestion thread of its own if we don't have one. 
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