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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[HmH]

Which makes it even stranger that anyone would deny the self-evident holy reality of Magnetic Jesus.

[Folly]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/14/bishop-defied-coronavirus-mass-gathering-warnings-killed-covid-19-12555681/
A Bishop who called upon his congregation to gather while saying "God is greater than the coronavirus", has now died of the coronavirus.

What lesson do you think God is trying to teach us with this?

[thompson]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/14/bishop-defied-coronavirus-mass-gathering-warnings-killed-covid-19-12555681/
A Bishop who called upon his congregation to gather while saying "God is greater than the coronavirus", has now died of the coronavirus.

What lesson do you think God is trying to teach us with this?

That he has a fairly grim sense of humour?

[McTraveller]

While I believe God is indeed "bigger" than any virus, I also believe that we live in a fallen/corrupted world, where there is suffering and pain.  If you're a "Bible person" there are many many places in the Bible that talk about how both good and bad fortunes fall on both the "righteous and unrighteous" - your circumstance, cause of death, etc. doesn't have anything to do with "how well you follow the religion.*"

The lessons I take from this are all pretty basic:  be a good steward, which includes being sensibly hygienic.  Care for your neighbor, which means not encouraging your neighbors to do foolish things.  Don't have any idols, including your own sense of self-righteousness.

*Which, incidentally, is why the Christian gospel is "good news" - there's no hoops to jump through. Just simple faith.  (The argument that "faith" is a hoop to jump through is a specious one.)

[Egan_BW]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/14/bishop-defied-coronavirus-mass-gathering-warnings-killed-covid-19-12555681/
A Bishop who called upon his congregation to gather while saying "God is greater than the coronavirus", has now died of the coronavirus.

What lesson do you think God is trying to teach us with this?

"Respect nature, because it will absolutely kill you."

[HmH]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/14/bishop-defied-coronavirus-mass-gathering-warnings-killed-covid-19-12555681/
A Bishop who called upon his congregation to gather while saying "God is greater than the coronavirus", has now died of the coronavirus.

What lesson do you think God is trying to teach us with this?

"Don't expect your faith to make you the center of the universe. Just because you blackmail me with implications that letting you die will prove my nonexistence doesn't mean your blackmail will work."

[Iduno]

https://metro.co.uk/2020/04/14/bishop-defied-coronavirus-mass-gathering-warnings-killed-covid-19-12555681/
A Bishop who called upon his congregation to gather while saying "God is greater than the coronavirus", has now died of the coronavirus.

What lesson do you think God is trying to teach us with this?

"Respect nature, because it will absolutely kill you."

What does god need with a starship?

[Frumple]

Better question: If you could have a starship, without significant personal downsides, why not have a starship? Most people that have sailing boats or other sorts of water based small craft need them for precisely sod all.

It's one of the more disappointing things with reality and most of human religions' boring ass creator deities, really. There's plenty of neat shit in the world but if I were a creator deity I'd be putting some priority on having cats vomit rainbows instead of hairballs, y'know? Stuff could be a lot more interesting with little to no increase in danger, but for whatever reason most believers seem pretty comfortable with their gods having seriously dropped the ball on that front.

[McTraveller]

Better question: If you could have a starship, without significant personal downsides, why not have a starship? Most people that have sailing boats or other sorts of water based small craft need them for precisely sod all.

It's one of the more disappointing things with reality and most of human religions' boring ass creator deities, really. There's plenty of neat shit in the world but if I were a creator deity I'd be putting some priority on having cats vomit rainbows instead of hairballs, y'know? Stuff could be a lot more interesting with little to no increase in danger, but for whatever reason most believers seem pretty comfortable with their gods having seriously dropped the ball on that front.

Have you seen a platypus?  Slime molds?  Black holes?  Quantum mechanics? The universe is full of pretty amazing, weird stuff.

Also my take is that God purposely didn't create everything, so we would have the opportunity to imagine and create too.  Yeah yeah we are limited, because we can't make rainbow-vomiting cats.  We can (and have) made rainbow-colored cats though...

[HmH]

Better question: If you could have a starship, without significant personal downsides, why not have a starship? Most people that have sailing boats or other sorts of water based small craft need them for precisely sod all.

It's one of the more disappointing things with reality and most of human religions' boring ass creator deities, really. There's plenty of neat shit in the world but if I were a creator deity I'd be putting some priority on having cats vomit rainbows instead of hairballs, y'know? Stuff could be a lot more interesting with little to no increase in danger, but for whatever reason most believers seem pretty comfortable with their gods having seriously dropped the ball on that front.

If cats vomited rainbows instead of hairballs, and - allow me to extend your logic - if their piss smelled like roses, there would be no ugly downsides to balance their natural cuteness.

It will break the balance of dog/cat-lovers, and leave the balance skewed,
And will let the cats breed and adopt the humans!
And the cats shall outnumber the humans.

[Eschar]

The argument that "faith" is a hoop to jump through is a specious one.

Why?

[McTraveller]

The argument that "faith" is a hoop to jump through is a specious one.

Why?

Because it is essentially arguing that faith is works; it's re-defining words to be argumentative.  "Belief" is not a "work."

[Eschar]

The argument that "faith" is a hoop to jump through is a specious one.

Why?

Because it is essentially arguing that faith is works; it's re-defining words to be argumentative.  "Belief" is not a "work."

True, it's not a choice (which is one of the main problem's with Pascal's Wager). However, it could still be considered a "hoop to jump through" in the sense of an obstacle (except under universalism.)

[Rolan7]

While I believe God is indeed "bigger" than any virus, I also believe that we live in a fallen/corrupted world, where there is suffering and pain.  If you're a "Bible person" there are many many places in the Bible that talk about how both good and bad fortunes fall on both the "righteous and unrighteous" - your circumstance, cause of death, etc. doesn't have anything to do with "how well you follow the religion.*"

The lessons I take from this are all pretty basic:  be a good steward, which includes being sensibly hygienic.  Care for your neighbor, which means not encouraging your neighbors to do foolish things.  Don't have any idols, including your own sense of self-righteousness.

It looks (from the outside) like you took some good lessons from the virus, then tried to connect them to doctrine.  There are plenty of lessons about hygiene in the Bible which are a closer fit than the call for stewardship...  They're largely about ritual uncleanness though and seem a bit primitive (and sexist) in a modern context.  Humility is also a (concerningly) strong Biblical theme without involving idolatry.

"Love thy neighbor" is hard to argue with, though.  The original meaning of it applying to one's tribe is dicier, but post-translation it's a good rule.

*Which, incidentally, is why the Christian gospel is "good news" - there's no hoops to jump through. Just simple faith.  (The argument that "faith" is a hoop to jump through is a specious one.)

I still fail to understand what this means.  How am I expected to have faith in something I don't believe?  How can I believe something without being convinced with evidence, which would be "testing God" and removing the need for faith?

There are ideas I have faith in that I can't argue for, but they're social values that seem to come from my parents or common human nature.  I tried to find belief in Jesus in those basic feelings, but it's not there.  I'm not an ex-Christian, but I've wanted to be Christian pretty badly.

So I don't know what my path to simple faith is even supposed to be.  Meditating/prayer with an open heart until the truth is privately revealed to me?  I've tried that many times, and gotten a *lot* of potential conflicting "truths", which doesn't help me.  It appears that many very intelligent people choose a truth in that manner, but they don't choose the same thing.

I've also read the Bible (which isn't simple, particularly if I need to truly understand it).  It didn't convince me of the goodness or existence of God, I'll leave it at that.  I can imagine somehow becoming a Christian someday, but not defending the Bible as true or good.

[McTraveller]

I think trying to find a "path" to faith is problematic. My basis for this thought is all the stuff about "having faith like children".  We adults tend to overthink everything...