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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[TD1]

Yea, it originally meant peasant, IIRC.

All that saying "pagan" means, to me, is "religious but not Christian."

[Gentlefish]

I use it in a vague sense because I've not quite settled into something like wicca or duidism, or Nordic or Grecian. It's something that doesn't come up -too- terribly often for me, at least for deep thoughts, but it's something I have for myself.

[TD1]

Religion, for me, really helps frame the universe and humanity together. Maybe that's why I'm a pagan; I like to know that there isn't one all-powerful and always-right diety. I like the idea that we're all under a group of personally flawed, but altogether whole group of beings that care for us and want to see us succeed and prosper.

Given your more casual approach, does the above mean you view religion as a tool to be used, even by yourself, to frame humanity and the universe together, but not necessarily the ultimate truth touted by Christians?

[Gentlefish]

Given your more casual approach, does the above mean you view religion as a tool to be used, even by yourself, to frame humanity and the universe together, but not necessarily the ultimate truth touted by Christians?

Religion as a tool is an interesting idea, and I used to think about it that way. I don't think there is an Ultimate Truth, a la Christianity, rather the idea that "All paths lead to (god/truth/goodness)". Which I guess maybe implies one? But there at least isn't just one path.

But I see religion more as a guide or guru; It's supposed to help you make the right choices and allow you make better choices in the future. Less of a tool, more of a person(?) in the way that you communicate with and receive feedback from it/them/Him, and gives you a sense of purpose, and something/one/One to look up to and look to make proud.

[Frumple]

The lazy (and/or insane, if conversations are actually involved) person's existentialism, you seem to be saying >_>

[TD1]

So....religion itself as the deity, almost? 0_o

[Gentlefish]

The lazy (and/or insane, if conversations are actually involved) person's existentialism, you seem to be saying >_>

Now now, I'm not saying I'm insane. the "conversations" are one sided, for the most part. A good example is prayer followed by a feeling you should do something. And of course it's got a little bit of existentialism in the sense that we don't exist for one absolute goal beyond doing good.

So....religion itself as the deity, almost? 0_o

Er... Maybe? I just tried framing the response in a way that accounted for most religions. The it/they/Him was speaking more of the diety/ies involved in whatever form of religion, rather than the religion itself. The dieties are the guides and figures, rather than the religion.

[Shadowlord]

Meanwhile, I know christians who think that "God" talks to them, and have made decisions based on what "God" has said to them.

[Kot]

D E U S   V U L T

[TheDarkStar]

Meanwhile, I know christians who think that "God" talks to them, and have made decisions based on what "God" has said to them.

I'm pretty sure most Christians do this.

[Telgin]

I gather that it's a more Protestant thing than anything and remember reading that some Catholics thought that Protestantism was a little "too holy" in that way.

Believing that you can directly converse with God is a very common belief in the southeast U.S. among Protestants at least.  As I've related before, I know a preacher that believes he was directly told by God while in the hospital that He'd kill him and his kids if he didn't get saved after he got out of the hospital.

The belief that you can directly talk to God is yet another thing that really hurt my faith.  I was always very upset that God never talked to me, no matter how much I asked, and despite God presumably knowing that it was hurting my faith.

[Egan_BW]

Not sure about "most", but there does seem to be an ample supply of christians who think that god has a direct line to everyone's head, and if you can't hear it that just means you're ignoring the little Jesus inside you. It's a little disturbing.

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

New covenant, yadda yadda. Homosexuality isn't necessarily in good shape from nixing the Leviticus et al stuff, since there's crap in the NT, too, but it's arguably better.

Fuck Paul, he's basically the only reason that the NT says anything about homosexuality. He also says that "feminine men" are sinful, yeah fuck you too bro. I just ignore pretty much everything he said.

The difference between the NT and the OT with respect to homosexuality is that in the NT, it's not okay to stone gays to death. Which is an improvement I guess?

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

We're always going to need a "why" alongside the "how".

We know how things work? Great. Why do they work -that- way? Oh, we don't know and can't find out from experimentation?
Let's look inward. I believe that religion is about introspection, and personally answering the whys for yourself. It's not so much about "how did the universe start?" That's almost irrelevant when you ask why, and why it's so big but we can only live on one planet (for now; we're about to transcend one-planet-ness). Religion, for me, really helps frame the universe and humanity together. Maybe that's why I'm a pagan; I like to know that there isn't one all-powerful and always-right diety. I like the idea that we're all under a group of personally flawed, but altogether whole group of beings that care for us and want to see us succeed and prosper.

One scientific theory to explain why things work -that- way is Everett's interpretation of quantum mechanics - aka the "many worlds" interpretation. There's nobody thinking these thoughts in the universes that don't produce intelligence, and we're all obviously in a single universe and can't see the others. That wouldn't explain where the multiverse came from, though.

THE STRONG ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE REMOVES THE NEED FOR A GOD

[Dozebôm Lolumzalìs]

Not sure about "most", but there does seem to be an ample supply of christians who think that god has a direct line to everyone's head, and if you can't hear it that just means you're ignoring the little Jesus inside you. It's a little disturbing.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN, ATHEIST

NOBODY IS AN ATHEIST

THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO LOVE GOD AND PEOPLE WHO HATE GOD

WHICH ONE ARE YOU