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I am religious and believe in free will

71 (27.7%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

114 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (23.8%)

Total Members Voted: 251

[TD1]

-snip-

Actually, thought better of it. That's got nothing to do with religion.

[penguinofhonor]

.

[That Wolf]

So penguin have you had some?

[UXLZ]

Mmm... Well, if it makes people happy and doesn't kill them or negatively effect others I can't see the harm in it...

But then, in what are they different from something like marijuana for instance? (Or are they considered similar?)
Morphine?

[That Wolf]

Mmm... Well, if it makes people happy and doesn't kill them or negatively effect others I can't see the harm in it...

But then, in what are they different from something like marijuana for instance? (Or are they considered similar?)
Morphine?

Marijuana can help with the nausea but that isnt bad for you, if you over do it (like anything) It can be bad for your health mostly with complacent thoughts.
Things like opiates are just a pain killer and you cant get much spirituality when your brain is overloaded with feelgoods. I would suggest stay away from opiates and barbiturates. Also things like stimulants arnt any good.
psychedelics are good if you are ready and healthy. Lsd while has its uses is more for fun Ive found.
So no morphine isnt "spirtual"

[Orange Wizard]

What makes an experience spiritual (as opposed to fun, or ritualistic, or whatever) Wolf?

[Leafsnail]

IMO you shouldn't use the religion thread as a platform to promote drug usage

Actually, it goes both ways. Just look at HIV in the Eighties or Haiti a couple years back. It's just that it's used for different purposes.

This kind of thing is my biggest problem with religious worldviews actually, even milder ones.  If you start by assuming that everything was created by some omnibenevolent deity then the just world fallacy naturally follows ("anyone who's suffering deserves it").

[Orange Wizard]

IMO you shouldn't use the religion thread as a platform to promote drug usage

Eh. It's not too bad at this point. If people start focussing on it I'll ask that it's taken elsewhere.

[That Wolf]

What makes an experience spiritual (as opposed to fun, or ritualistic, or whatever) Wolf?

A knowing that I am not my ego, that 'I' am part of something greater than my evolved senses can pick out.
An almost death in my old thinking, a change in the self. But it seems so obvious that before I was wrong. They can be both fearful and euphoric, but these feelings come from the realisation of the knowledge you receive and how you take it. Not from the psilocybin.
If this makes no sense just say and I will attempt to put it into better words.

IMO you shouldn't use the religion thread as a platform to promote drug usage

Yes I understand. But as you can see I havnt said you must do so, only if you are ready. And I in no way promote every drug to be used. I suggested the best for genuine spiritual experiences, the point of this thread.
And I will take it elsewhere if many ask for it.
Remember that all religions came from drug use

[XXXXYYYY]

Mmm... Well, if it makes people happy and doesn't kill them or negatively effect others I can't see the harm in it...

But then, in what are they different from something like marijuana for instance? (Or are they considered similar?)
Morphine?

Marijuana can help with the nausea but that isnt bad for you, if you over do it (like anything) It can be bad for your health mostly with complacent thoughts.
Things like opiates are just a pain killer and you cant get much spirituality when your brain is overloaded with feelgoods. I would suggest stay away from opiates and barbiturates. Also things like stimulants aren't any good.
psychedelics are good if you are ready and healthy. Lsd while has its uses is more for fun I've found.
So no morphine isn't "spiritual"

Actually, opium dreams are quite common, and tend to be very vivid. They could be taken as spiritual, depending on the content of the dream. While hallucinogens might have the most sudden effects, other drugs can cause religious or spiritual feelings as well. Hell, tobacco, a stimulant, was used religiously at one point, and that causes no hallucinations at all. Basically anything that causes altered states or feelings will at one point or another have been attributed to a religious or spiritual influence, even such things as fasting and sleep deprivation, which cause intense visions without the use of any external drug.

[Frumple]

Have any of the people here who have had spiritual experiences of the unexplained phenomena kind ever attempted to find the explanation on the internet or something? (Or at least look for similar cases), or do you simply say 'yep, that was a spiritual experience?'

Well... yeah? I mean, the major repeated experiences that most would call explicitly spiritual (talking to/being talked to by god stuff*) that I've been through were both extreme depressive breaks causing me to hallucinate like goddamn. The various awe/prayer states I've been in have all been (fairly trivially at this point, insofar as you can call it trivial when it's taking over a decade to reach this point) induced by meditative practice -- they're pretty straightforward low-tech mindhacking, so to speak. The various bits of unlikely coincidence, some of which involved near-death stuff, were, well. Coincidences. I'm okay with accepting that sometimes it's just the luck of metaphorical dice.

They can still be spiritual experiences, though, if you just equate "spiritual experience" to a certain mental state that's no more supernatural (or less, if you're feeling whimsical) than the ability to love. It's chemical cocktails and neurological pathways all the way down, so to speak.

That's more or less how I've internalized it over the years, anyway. I've had the divine talk to me, I've had the unlikely coincidences, I've been through pretty much the whole kit and kaboodle. I've chalked it up to the human brain having a really easy time of going haywire, and it hasn't caused a notable fluctuation in occurrences.

*FYI, according to the voices that were temporarily in my head when I was a pre-teen, and again as a young teenager, accompanying the overwhelming spiritual style emotional overload, and the thrashing, and the screaming and tongues and whatnot, mother earth is in pretty extreme suffering and we as a species are basically killing god.

Temporary insanity is a hell of a drug. Gods be buggered but I don't want to go through that again.

[Cheeetar]

Remember that all religions came from drug use

[citation needed]

[Arx]

I'd also like to know why the psilocybin is necessary when I can induce a religious experience through a thirty-second ritual referred to as 'prayer'.

[That Wolf]

Remember that all religions came from drug use

[citation needed]

really? I thought it was common knowledge. Ok in the vedas they talk about this stalk of a plant soma that is a stimulant and it is the plant from the god of war (forgot his name) it gives you the light of said god and gives you power of a warrior.
The pagans used stimulants and psychedelics and alot of religions stem from both of them.
The greeks had oracles that where on drugs to commune with the gods.
And the jews holy water has marijuana in it.
The drink of holi is milk and marijuana.
Its bloody everwhere.

[MaximumZero]

If you're going to continue this line of conversation, please provide legitimate, unbiased sources. Without them, you may as well be telling us that your WiFi router is spying on you for the government on the moon.