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Author Topic: Fortress Strategy  (Read 5981 times)

Peradon

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Fortress Strategy
« on: January 13, 2015, 08:46:09 pm »

Hey guys, I have played DF for about two years now, but I can never seem to make any progress. I can only get about two years into it before catastrophe hits. I usualy lose from starvation, or from the lack of booze. So I wanted to ask you guys what your general fortress strategy is, in the hopes that I can find something that works well for me.

My general strategy is to mine out a huge room near the entrance for general goods, then build about 10 3x3 farms, then still and workshop area. After that, I mine out the bedrooms, and start working on gettin as much metal as possible for a hallway full of serrated disk traps(with each trap having 10 disks :P). Its about this time when food starts getting scarce. What am I doing wrong?
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Baffler

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2015, 09:01:52 pm »

If you're running out of food with that many farms, that's probably where to start. Are they set to plant every season? What are they growing? Only plump helmets can be eaten raw, the others need various forms of processing before they can be eaten.
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k33n

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2015, 09:02:01 pm »

I usually dig out the farm area and do 2 - 3 max sized farms: plump helmets (booze), quarry bush (soap) and pig tails ( backup cloth and medical thread ). 2-3 of my dwarfs are dedicated farmer/cook/brewers, and they have all hauling disabled. The plump helmets are forbidden as cookable and there are repeating orders on about 3 stills for constant booze making, as well as rock / glass pots being turned out forever.

To supplement a diet of raw plump helmets I ensure I have a large egg operation going at all times - turkeys are best because they give leather and much meat as well. I take 3 hens and 3 gobblers at minimum and prefer to have at least 30 nest boxes churning out eggs forever.

The only thing that screws me with this setup is if I lose track of the barrel / pot production line and it falls behind. 
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Remuthra

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2015, 09:04:54 pm »

I typically set up a small farming complex at my fortress entrance, to keep everyone alive while I dig out the extensive murder-tunnels and all the various function-typed floors, then set up a farming colony just below the surface later on, with a connection tunnel to my main column.

I may or may not be overly obsessed with organization and defense.

Eldin00

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2015, 09:10:08 pm »

You shouldn't be running out of food with that strategy, unless you're brewing all of your plants or growing plants that need extra processing/can't be eaten. What crops are you growing? Are your planters managing to actually use a significant portion of that 90 tiles of farmland? When you start having food shortages, how much booze do you have in reserve?

In the current version, you can feed your fort for the first couple of years just on plant gathering (in a biome with edible plants), as long as you don't have a long siege or something that keeps your gatherer(s) inside. You can also supplement your food supply with hunting, fishing, or slaughtering excess livestock/captured animals. And of course, if you produce any sort of trade goods, you can buy food from caravans.

I usually start out with 5-6 1x7 farm plots and set up a gathering zone somewhere with fruit trees (if I have any) and end up with plenty of brewable plants to keep my alcohol reserves up, and a massive food surplus by the time the 2nd caravan shows up.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 09:13:00 pm by Eldin00 »
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Peradon

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2015, 09:11:08 pm »

If you're running out of food with that many farms, that's probably where to start. Are they set to plant every season? What are they growing? Only plump helmets can be eaten raw, the others need various forms of processing before they can be eaten.
I forgot to mention I have about 30 dwarves at that point. I am growing plump helmets all four seasons, so thats not the problem...

I usually dig out the farm area and do 2 - 3 max sized farms: plump helmets (booze), quarry bush (soap) and pig tails ( backup cloth and medical thread ). 2-3 of my dwarfs are dedicated farmer/cook/brewers, and they have all hauling disabled. The plump helmets are forbidden as cookable and there are repeating orders on about 3 stills for constant booze making, as well as rock / glass pots being turned out forever.

To supplement a diet of raw plump helmets I ensure I have a large egg operation going at all times - turkeys are best because they give leather and much meat as well. I take 3 hens and 3 gobblers at minimum and prefer to have at least 30 nest boxes churning out eggs forever.

The only thing that screws me with this setup is if I lose track of the barrel / pot production line and it falls behind. 
I have never tried eggs before, I think that may be the way to go, seeing as how the booze making is interfering with the amount  food that can be eaten. Although, its very dwarfy to make booze from the last amount of food you have. At least they wont care when they starve....
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utunnels

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2015, 09:21:01 pm »

Making a barrack near your entrance also helps.
If you are using traps, remember enemies will halt if their leader was killed or caged. So if you want to be a trap master(not rely on military), you'd better find a way to lure them and use lever controlled upward spear traps. For example, you can dig a maze which links to your inside area. After your main gate is locked, they will path into the maze and then you can trap them inside and pull the lever.
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Eldin00

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2015, 09:22:25 pm »

If you go the egg route, turkeys produce the most eggs of any of the domestic poultry, and have the highest butchering returns. However, peafowl are a better choice for the meat industry because while slightly smaller, they reach full size in 1 year instead of the 2 that turkeys require. However, peafowl only produce about half as many eggs.
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Goblins

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2015, 09:56:18 pm »

I would suggest, as a newish player myself, putting your food right near your dwarfs's dining hall.  Then put a still in the dining hall for fast brewing.

Hope that helped a little :)
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Sadrice

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2015, 10:18:45 pm »

Eggs get produced so abundantly and birds are so cheap that there's no reason not to use peafowl.  I actually prefer geese.  They mature in one year, produce less eggs but slightly more meat, and geese are just much cooler (have you heard the sort of noises peacocks make?  I hate the bastards). 

Keep in mind that an egg is 1 unit of food, size is irrelevant.  This means that ducks and guineafowl, which are too small to butcher, are actually the best traditional poultry for egg production, since they lay large clutches.  Ducks lay the largest clutches, but take 2 years to mature.  Guineafowl begin laying after 1 year, and produce almost as many eggs.  For truly excessive egg production, you want reptiles, since they lay huge clutches.  Cave crocodiles (obtainable via traps in the caverns and an animal trainer) are high value (4x multiplier), produce a lot of meat, and lay 20 to 60 eggs at a time!  The only disadvantage is that they take 3 years to mature, but with clutches so large, in 3 years you will have fps crippling numbers of enormous, delicious crocodiles.  You will have so much high value food that by the time the goblins hear the rumors of your excessive wealth, your dwarves will be spherical balls of pampered lard.  Thankfully, you will have a few hundred cave crocodiles to devour any invaders.

In recent versions, since fruit is harvestable, there's really no excuse not to be absolutely swimming in booze, if you have fruit trees on your site.

Make some max size zones, set them for gathering (you can also pasture animals there), and throughout the summer you will get several hundred units of fruit, more if you really try.  By the time the first caravan arrives, you can have more booze than you know what to do with.  Always keep an excessive booze stockpile, so that if disaster happens and production halts, it will be years until your dwarves go sober.  Once a fortress gets properly up and running, I get worried if booze stocks go below 1000.

Herbalism also provides quite a bit of food, to supplement your eggs.  Herbalism is really the best skill for early fortress food ad booze production.  Bring a proficient herbalist on embark, let him do his thing, and feel free to not worry about food for years, giving you plenty of time to figure out traditional agriculture before the goblins start making problems for your herbalists.

As far as livestock goes, for simplicity stick to nongrazers.  Pigs are relatively cheap, provide abundant meat, milk, leather, and bones, and keeping them is as simple as shutting them in a large room and not slaughtering them so much that they die out.  Dogs are another good choice.  They provide almost as much food as pigs, and though they aren't milkable, you can train them for war.  War dogs have never been very deadly, recent versions being particularly bad, but they are still useful for pasturing at entrances to detect thieves, necromancers, and snatchers, and when assigned to military dwarves, provide more non dwarf targets for enemies to waste time on while your soldiers do the actual killing.

Grazers are nice, but require pasture space, which means you have to secure a portion of the surface or caverns against attack, or go through the time and effort to grow your own pastures in a secure location.  Sheep and alpacas are probably the most practical (shearable, milkable, decent butchering returns, low pasture requirements), but I must admit I have a terrible fondness for reindeer and water buffalo.

Basically, farming is completely unnecessary.  I got bored of it a few years ago, and have succesfully run many many fortresses without planting a single crop.  Farming is very productive, not much work, and siege proof.  It's a good thing to learn how to do correctly.  But don't feel like you have to make it work immediately. There's no reason to go hungry or sober while you figure out agriculture.

(It just occurred to me that your problem might be storage.  Make a lot of barrels.  If you have trouble making enough, recruit a stonecrafter and set rock pots on repeat.  You will need a lot, and barrel shortage is the best way to have an excessive food income but hungry, sober dwarves.  Don't let it happen to you.)
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Bearcoon

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2015, 11:01:30 pm »

If your Realy having such a problem with Drinks than i sugjest you dig out a Water pool next to a river/stream and have an intake valve just as a backup
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Aslandus

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2015, 11:40:25 pm »

Are you actually building a still (for booze production) and kitchen (for cooking food) in addition to your farms? It sounds like you are just growing a bunch of crops and hoping the dwarves figure out how to drink plump helmets...

Peradon

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2015, 11:41:55 pm »

Now that you mention it sadrice, I think that the lack of barrels was my problem.....

EDIT: Nope, I have a kitchen and a couple stills....
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Eldin00

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #13 on: January 14, 2015, 01:40:16 am »

Eggs get produced so abundantly and birds are so cheap that there's no reason not to use peafowl.  I actually prefer geese.  They mature in one year, produce less eggs but slightly more meat, and geese are just much cooler (have you heard the sort of noises peacocks make?  I hate the bastards). 

Keep in mind that an egg is 1 unit of food, size is irrelevant.  This means that ducks and guineafowl, which are too small to butcher, are actually the best traditional poultry for egg production, since they lay large clutches.  Ducks lay the largest clutches, but take 2 years to mature.  Guineafowl begin laying after 1 year, and produce almost as many eggs. 

Turkeys are actually better egglayers than ducks. Turkeys lay 10-14 eggs at a time, ducks lay 8-13. And all domestic poultry can lay eggs at 1 year of age, just some of them keep growing for another year after that.

As to your preference for geese, they are probably the best choice of poultry to farm for meat, being between peafowl and turkeys in size, and reaching full size in 1 year. They also have the lowest egg production of domestic fowl, but if you have 4-5 females, any of the domestic fowl will produce enough eggs to be a significant food source early in a fortress's lifespan.
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Findulidas

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Re: Fortress Strategy
« Reply #14 on: January 14, 2015, 02:33:10 am »

There are awesome guides on youtube on how to do stuff, most of these guides are excellent for newbies. I made some myself, but I bet there are better out there you could easily find yourself so I wont harass anyone with them.
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