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[Reelya]

It's a problem but "epidemic" is inflammatory language for a problem that's much less than it used to be. It would be equally wrong to talk about a "murder epidemic" in the USA. So no bullshit about how if we don't accept the term "epidemic" we're somehow dismissing the issue. Inciting panic is not necessarily a helpful way to deal with a societal problem.

Also, the CDC's sexual violence figures for men and women are virtually identical (and 80% of men in the surveys report a female aggressor). That's what you get when you apply the campus rape surveys in a non-gendered way: the result is that there's no proof of a gender difference in current sexual assault rates. Basically the CDC took the standard campus rape questions and reworded them very slightly to be applicable to men, while allowing for a female aggressor. Instantly, the current rape rates virtually equalized (less than 1% difference in base victimization rate by gender):

And now the real surprise: when asked about experiences in the last 12 months, men reported being “made to penetrate”—either by physical force or due to intoxication—at virtually the same rates as women reported rape (both 1.1 percent in 2010, and 1.7 and 1.6 respectively in 2011).

Note that the female survey results from the same study are being used to support the "1 in 5" statistic. If it's "1 in 5" for both genders, then how are we meant to process this? The actual survey results (and others) go against everything we as a society claim to know about the issue.

[Strife26]

Anyone who has ever threatened my career, educational career, or legal standing over being polite is an enemy of free society, yes Maniac.

[Shadowlord]

Also, the CDC's sexual violence figures for men and women are virtually identical (80% of men in the surveys report a female aggressor). That's what you get when you apply the campus rape surveys in a non-gendered way: the result is that there's no proof of a gender difference in current sexual assault rates. Basically the CDC took the standard campus rape questions and reworded them very slightly to be applicable to men, while allowing for a female aggressor. Instantly, the current rape rates virtually equalized (less than 1% difference in base victimization rate by gender).

Yes, but men like it! You can tell because their dick is hard! #notmyopinion

[MarcAFK]

Anyone who has ever threatened my career, educational career, or legal standing over being polite is any enemy of free society, yes Maniac.

Its not about being polite anyway, it's just people in power being paranoid they can be sued for allowing any form of harrassment to occur under their watch. They don't give a fuck about rape victims, discrimination, harrassment that affects your education, or society in any way.

[Shadowlord]

Except if the students are customers, in which case you don't want to lose your customers, do you!? DO YOU!?

(To be fair, when I was in college I thought customer-ish too (what's the point of paying all this money if you force me to take classes that won't teach me anything, or which have nothing to do with what I wanted to go here for, or require knowing stuff that I never learned in high school or middle school in order to pass but are a requirement for some strange reason?)

[Strife26]

Anyone who has ever threatened my career, educational career, or legal standing over being polite is any enemy of free society, yes Maniac.

Its not about being polite anyway, it's just people in power being paranoid they can be sued for allowing any form of harrassment to occur under their watch. They don't give a fuck about rape victims, discrimination, harrassment that affects your education, or society in any way.

Yep, all coming back to a letter sent by an federal agency with only the shakiest basis in law.    http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-201104.html

Epidemics are bad and all, especially when they exist and aren't just the current fear fashion. However, regardless of the crime, the standard is innocent until proven guilty.

Period, full stop, bold, and repeat three times.

A paragraph digression about all the things that that proof requires can be pursued at everyone's own discretion and time.

Does that mean that criminals occasionally go free because there's not real proof of the assault or burglary or car accident? Damn fucking straight. Weep for the victim, but praise the system for allowing it, because that's a critical cornerstone of free society.

[Frumple]

Anyone who has ever threatened my career, educational career, or legal standing over being polite is an enemy of free society, yes Maniac.

So... every business (try cussing out your customers, boss, or fellow employees :V), all of the government (hello, all those legal restrictions on how you talk to people), and every school in the country (If my material wealth was a hundred dollars for every time a student got to go on a vulgarity spewing rant inside a classroom and remain in that school, I would be very, very poor). Military, too. I can only imagine how fast the MPs would drag your ass away if you started swearing a blue streak at the local base commander(s). You have many enemies of free society in free society, including this very forum!

Honestly, I think your only ally may be stand up comedy.

And yeah, a lot of the kneejerk stuff is indeed paranoia about lawsuits. Usually there's fucks given for the rest of it, too, just not as many. Also, the arbitration and whatnot has... nothing to do with the justice system. Like, yeah, that's the shape it's taking, but there's no legal basis for basically anything going on there. It's just a weird way of handling complaints and shit, and probably less kangaroo-y than your average HR manager. What y'all are really lamenting, t'be honest, is the relatively poor (knowledge of, in particular) contract law that lets schools just kinda' do whatever on that front and legally force the students to take it, because the students, y'know, agreed to that. Read the fine print :V

Lotta' different ways you could get a handle on that, but who knows if we'll ever bother.

[mainiac]

Anyone who has ever threatened my career, educational career, or legal standing over being polite is an enemy of free society, yes Maniac.

Except I was responding to you labeling anyone who complains not anyone who sues.  This post had no mention of legal action

You exhibit the exact same collective blame thin skinned crybaby behavior that you complain about.  It's pretty ironic.  The fact that I say something you like is taken as equivalent to persecution.

[Strife26]

Maybe I didn't get yourself point, then? Heck if I do now, actually.


Complaining loudly, in any forum that one chooses, is perfectly cool. It's when those complaints get someone sanctioned by an organization that should know and act better that it becomes a problem. Everything else is the marketplace of ideas, let it be as shrill, hypocritical, and strange as it wants to be.

[mainiac]

Maybe I didn't get yourself point, then? Heck if I do now, actually.

My point?  Your arguments are a hypocritical load of shit.  Tons of people all over the spectrum complain about people saying things they dont like by claiming persecution.  This includes you in this very conversation.  Like Eric Blair said, fascism is any politics you oppose.  Yet you use the existence of some people making false claims (in your judgement) as an argument against this vaguely defined movement you loathe.

[Strife26]

People bitch. There's nothing remotely wrong with that, if anything, that's something of critical importance. The marketplace of competing ideas is the foundation of free society. It's when one's input in that marketplace of ideas gets a line of special snowflakes demanding someone be fired that it's a problem.

[Rolan7]

Also, any time some cries TRIGGERED they're full of shit. The onus of avoiding unwelcome speech is on the individual, not on society to turn the marketplace of ideas into a room of snuggies and puppies.

Yes, anyone who ever asks you to be polite is literally hitler.

Isn't this kinda hypocritical when you hate people putting words in your mouth?
Besides, you certainly don't have to sue someone to threaten their career.

Your arguments are the "hypocritical load of shit", frankly.

[mainiac]

Your arguments are the "hypocritical load of shit", frankly.

Oh what a tangled web we weave when we step into the zone of trying to censor others by accusing them of censorship.

I find your objections to my objections about his objections to be a hypocritcal load of shit.

People bitch. There's nothing remotely wrong with that, if anything, that's something of critical importance. The marketplace of competing ideas is the foundation of free society. It's when one's input in that marketplace of ideas gets a line of special snowflakes demanding someone be fired that it's a problem.

Ah, well then you probably have a problem with Liberals, Conservatives, Socialists and Libertarians.  Read the comments section of any mildly controversial news article sometime.

[Strife26]

Pretty much. Don't you?

[Shadowlord]

Your post was confusing so I'm going to go through it line by line.

It's only fair that people immediately start talking about the problems with the justice system anytime someone wants to talk about the rape epidemic.

Okay, so I can mark you down as "pro-witch-hunt," then?

After all, every time someone in these treads talks about cracking down on wallstreet everyone leaps to point out that people are innocent until proven guilty and how you shouldn't generalize.

Okay, so I can mark you down for "Wall Street has natural right to crash economy and ruin lives," then? I mean, are you suggesting folks should have to be proven guilty of breaking laws that don't exist, before new laws can be written, then?

It's nice to know that we have principled advocates of equality before the law here.

You can see the difference, yes?

Also, any time some cries TRIGGERED they're full of shit. The onus of avoiding unwelcome speech is on the individual, not on society to turn the marketplace of ideas into a room of snuggies and puppies.

Yes, anyone who ever asks you to be polite is literally hitler.

1st amendment protects freedom of speech against government censorship. Filing title IX complaints over speech would appear to fall under that, would it not? It wouldn't protect you against your mom telling you to WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE, or your boss telling you to get along with your colleagues or else. (I'm not sure if it protects kids or not, which has relevance for schools censoring kids, but like I said, I don't know and the impression I get is that the bill of rights doesn't fully apply to kids, the same way they can't vote (or buy cigs or booze))