Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Rolepgeek]

Couldn't they, though? Like, what chemicals do they really need to use? Why not use non toxic ones? It's the pressure that breaks it apart, after all.

[Ghazkull]

As a german, somehow vaguely following this entire ongoing campaign, i am jumping between hope for murica (because sanders got so many votes) then to silent resignation because hillary is winning anyway (yes go ahead vote your own stupid merkel into place, see what that gets you) and something between absolute horror and gleeful sadism when seeing how trump is doing.

By now its just looking to me like America has reached a point of "fuck it all" and is unsure whether to go out in a bang (trump) or as us germans like a wet fart (clinton). And then there is those panicked optimists and idealists voting for Sanders...

I only have one request of the american voters, if it comes down to trump or clinton...do the right thing and go out in a bang it will be more hilarious(in the well establihsed !!FUN!! way) for everyone involved.

[penguinofhonor]

I believe the issue is that legal fracking done right now is also "safe," but serious, permanent problems arise when people make mistakes or maliciously ignore safety regulations. Lots of people think that improving the regulations wouldn't really fix the issue - we'd have fracking companies damaging the environment and the government slapping them on the wrist without solving any real problems. That said, I don't know a ton about fracking, so I might be misinformed.

If it's really so baffling why black voters support Clinton, have you tried to see what they're saying about it? I mean, there are millions of black democrats, but nearly all I've seen on this issue is white liberals pondering it among themselves like black people literally can't give input. I don't think it's a coincidence that these conversations often come to dismissive conclusions like saying black voters want to be pandered to more, or that they support candidates based on who's friendliest with black public figures.

People have talked about this election revealing divides between the left and the right in this country, but it's shown a worrying one just within the left. White and black liberals don't have to agree on everything, but right now it looks like they're not even talking to each other.

[smirk]

~snip~

I dunno; I don't really see much comparison between Hillary and Mutti beyond the obvious "they're both women". Holls started as a politician rather than an academic, etc. She always struck me as being closer to, say, Nixon.

[sluissa]

I honestly haven't seen much input from black voters anywhere. But there was one (and it was several days ago I completely forget the source) reddit comment from a black voter who basically told it like this:

Bernie's message is that there needs to be a complete overturn of the status quo.

Hillary's message is that we need to work through slow gradual change.

Black people see things as getting better for themselves. It's better now than it was 10 years ago, it was better then than 30 years ago, etc. So gradual change, as frustrating as it is, seems to be working in their eyes. And they'll take that slow steady movement forward as opposed to an unknown revolution which might end up anywhere.

Me again: And it does make sense. They've done the revolution thing before, several times. And while it has gotten them results, it also comes with costs, usually in the form of severely increased violence.

Granted, this was one person on the internet claiming to be black speaking for all black people which isn't THAT much better than "white people" sitting around and trying to figure out what "black people" are thinking but it's also an angle I hadn't heard before.



Re: Fracking. There's nothing "safe" about it. While the chemicals they use are a worry (because they refuse to actually make public what's in those chemicals they're pumping into the ground). The breaking up of the rock lets the stuff that we already know is down there to shift around as well. This leads most shockingly to the flammable water coming out of faucets when pockets of methane gas are released into the water table, but also other poorly studied and unknown factors. Areas with large amounts of fracking are seeing increased incidences of earthquakes, often in areas where there were historically none.

As for the mistakes and ignored safety regulations. The big companies get around that by partitioning their drillers and well operators in smaller and smaller shell companies, sectioning them off from the bit company and each other so much that any sort of problem that comes up never becomes a liability for the large company. And rarely even the people actually on the ground running the well either, since they're all contractors and seperated from even the shell companies. Oil companies have themselves legally covered a dozen times over and short of some sort of widespread, extremely public disaster on the scale of the Deepwater Horizon or Exxon Valdez, nobody of note will ever see repercussion. And that'll likely never happen because it's easier to cover things up and contain them on land.

[Loud Whispers]

Always believe reddit

[mainiac]

It's not that it's bad, it's that it's incomprehensible why black voters are flocking overwhelmingly to one white candidate over another white candidate

I find it offensive how you say you want to understand other people and then you make statements that are dismissive of their views and could easily be taken as projecting your prejudices onto them.  And I find it aggravating that you continue to do so after multiple conversations about that behavior.

[smjjames]

edit: ehh, stupid joke, nvm.

[darkrider2]

I didn't watch the debate, but am I to understand that she tried talking over Sanders, he told her "Excuse me, I'm talking", and now her camp is claiming that it's sexism?

It does disturb me how the Shillary campaign sounds, too often of late, similar to Social Justice Warriors.

[Bauglir]

-snip-

If I had to guess, it's somewhere in the middle of "They're two old white folks, there's not that much identity difference to seize on", "My skin doesn't define everything about me - I have other preferences, too", and "Fuck people telling me who I'm supposed to like because I'm black". Of course, I do not know shit about black cultural identity, and so am only reasoning from generalities about human nature - mine is an easily trumped outsider's view of things, so corrections welcome and all that.

[mainiac]

I didn't watch the debate, but am I to understand that she tried talking over Sanders, he told her "Excuse me, I'm talking", and now her camp is claiming that it's sexism?

It does disturb me how the Shillary campaign sounds, too often of late, similar to Social Justice Warriors.

Godwins Law, you lose.

[smjjames]

Well, you'd have to read the whole transcript and actually, I thought it was slightly patronizing, not so much the words but the tone or the way he said it

Heres the transcript of that portion:

CLINTON: Well — well, I’ll tell you something else that Senator Sanders was against. He was against the auto bailout. In January of 2009, President-Elect Obama asked everybody in the Congress to vote for the bailout.

The money was there, and had to be released in order to save the American auto industry and four million jobs, and to begin the restructuring. We had the best year that the auto industry has had in a long time. I voted to save the auto industry.

(APPLAUSE)

He voted against the money that ended up saving the auto industry. I think that is a pretty big difference.

SANDERS: Well, I — If you are talking about the Wall Street bailout, where some of your friends destroyed this economy...

CLINTON: You know...

SANDERS: ... through — excuse me, I’m talking.

COOPER: Let him (ph) (inaudible).

(APPLAUSE)

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: If you’re gonna talk, tell the whole story, Senator Sanders.

SANDERS: Let me tell my story. You tell yours.

CLINTON: I will.

SANDERS: Your story is for — voting for every disastrous trade agreement, and voting for corporate America. Did I vote against the Wall Street bailout?

When billionaires on Wall Street destroyed this economy, they went to Congress and they said, “please, we’ll be good boys, bail us out.” You know what I said? I said, “let the billionaires themselves bail out Wall Street.” It shouldn’t be the middle class of this country.

I didn't watch the debate, but am I to understand that she tried talking over Sanders, he told her "Excuse me, I'm talking", and now her camp is claiming that it's sexism?

It does disturb me how the Shillary campaign sounds, too often of late, similar to Social Justice Warriors.

Godwins Law, you lose.

How even is that godwinning?

[mainiac]

How even is that godwinning?

SJW dont actually exist the way they are talked about.  People just use them as a catchall for anything they consider bad.  They are being used exactly the same way as fascism got bandied about:

The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies ‘something not desirable’.

http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/

Calling someone a SJW is exactly the same thing as calling them a Nazi.  Rather then discuss their views, you are using a label as an excuse to shut down conversation.

[smjjames]

How even is that godwinning?

SJW dont actually exist the way they are talked about.  People just use them as a catchall for anything they consider bad.  They are being used exactly the same way as fascism got bandied about:

The word Fascism has now no meaning except in so far as it signifies ‘something not desirable’.

http://www.orwell.ru/library/essays/politics/english/e_polit/

Calling someone a SJW is exactly the same thing as calling them a Nazi.  Rather then discuss their views, you are using a label as an excuse to shut down conversation.

Funny you're using George Orwell of 'Orwellian' as a source on that.

[penguinofhonor]

It's interesting how the evil SJW candidate isn't the one who mainly appeals to white liberal college students. The SJW candidate is the one with moderate appeal, the one that the far-left Tumblr crowd thinks is a bad feminist and a corporate sellout. This is a perception I've noticed quite a few times before.